Near/far view discussion

I believe that if you do have a 'far away' category trunk and intention for the final image as well as interesting and detailed jins, the trick is not to accentuate the tonal contrast too much (talking conifers). Subtlety on the colour of the lime sulfur and, for junipers, don't scrub the bark down to a bright orange.

I just want to thank all the participants in this discussion for their sharing.
it's the combination between Your expirience & examples that helped me gain the understanding & the insights I was missing in this interesting & important subject
HUGE thanks !!!

hi,
I think i see what was on your mind - aged deadwood will be cracked and the cracks are basically the same size on all deadwood regardless of the tree size......if a 1meter tall yamadori has 1mm cracks and you were aiming to style a 20 meter high tree image the cracks would be 2cm if the tree existed for real.....luckily the art of styling a bonsai is not making a scale model of a natural tree but to use the parts of the material that convey age and maturity while hiding or removing the parts that dont. A good artist will work with the best angles, deadwood and branches and the finished image will please the onlookers - be it near, far or a little of both if the viewer is short sighted and needs new glasses .

Everyone sees the tree their own way too, so style what pleases you the most and dont worry about all aspects fitting a text book description - that leads to a boring collection of same type tree styles otherwise

cheers Marcus

Hans/others, I do agree that fine deadwood details would not been seen from a distance but I also believe that some species especially ancient ones or ones that grow for many centuries, exhibit a “combined effect” of many, many deadwood features (old branches, old branch stubs, holes, weathered deadwood etc) this helps to create the illusion of age that can be appreciated from a distance view.
Photo is an example of Alaskan Cedar/Yellow Cedar/Cypress.
Cheers Graham

Good pieces of information from connoisseurs, no doubt! And we are thankful of course, but on the other hand...

marcus watts wrote: ... ... Everyone sees the tree their own way too, so style what pleases you the most and dont worry about all aspects fitting a text book description - that leads to a boring collection of same type tree styles otherwise... ...

my nellie wrote:Good pieces of information from connoisseurs, no doubt! And we are thankful of course, but on the other hand...

marcus watts wrote: ... ... Everyone sees the tree their own way too, so style what pleases you the most and dont worry about all aspects fitting a text book description - that leads to a boring collection of same type tree styles otherwise... ...

i dont think it is anything to do with being connoisseurs ? - it was just my personal advice to style ones own trees for your own pleasure and not worry too much about peers or what is supposedly 'right' or wrong. It is possible to show a truely stunning tree online or at exhibition - only half will like it while half will find fault.....you can also show a poor example and about half will like it also!. It is because bonsai is an art form, and art is personal and subjective.

My Nellie - by saying "but on the other hand........." it suggests you would prefer every tree to fit the same page of the text book rather than show a little individuality in a persons collection?, and while there is nothing wrong with this totally specialised approach of course, it is just one path that styling bonsai can take, not the only path. Close up deadwood detail and a distant large tree image is not a fault if both aspects please you, and continue to please you every time you look at the tree -but to adopt a lesser style to make the tree text book 'correct' could be to ignore some of the materials best features just to satisfy a percieved rule.

cheers Marcus

Hi everybody,
for those that are interested and dont mind the poor grammar! Than here are two links to my blog were I after questions that were asked to me in PM's about this subject, try to explain my thoughts and reasoning about how to downsize the image of a real tree in to Bonsai size. I thought that this old post of mine fits in this ongoing post here, so that why I linked them. These are by no means rules and maybe completely wrong or over simplified by me, but they might be useful or interesting to some! I know that this trick helped me to understand...well how it works! In my case that is! Maybe it helps some one else to see the light and go....ahaaaaaaaa! It is all illusion you know!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

http://hans-van-meer.ofbonsai.org/2009/07/29/a-rock-planting-that-shows-it-all-day-3/

http://hans-van-meer.ofbonsai.org/2009/07/28/a-rock-planting-that-shows-it-all-day-2/

marcus watts wrote: .. .. My Nellie - by saying "but on the other hand........." it suggests you would prefer every tree to fit the same page of the text book rather than show a little individuality in a persons collection?, ... ..

No, absolutely no, dear Marcus!
Perhaps the language barrier is to blame for the misunderstanding...
On the contrary, I share your aspect by all means! And I have quoted your words in contrast to uniformity which is... boring for me.
And of course this is a matter of expertise (in my opinion) because I am just learning and making my very first attempts to create some pre-bonsai.

Hans, very clever! I am sure that it can work for others, too, just like it worked for you.

I feel I have to thank IBC once more for all the knowledge I collect here!

my nellie wrote:

Hans, very clever! I am sure that it can work for others, too, just like it worked for you.

I feel I have to thank IBC once more for all the knowledge I collect here!

Thanks Nellie! Here is the second link that I thought that I had posted yesterday, but as it was realy late again last night and I posted the first link twice! So this next link follows the story of the first link!

http://hans-van-meer.ofbonsai.org/2009/07/28/a-rock-planting-that-shows-it-all-day-2/

Sorry for the mistake and I hope that these links might help some one!?

Below: I also like to share a other section from this post on my blog. I think this section says and shows how empty spaces work in real live and how they could help us just the same in Bonsai!

Empty or negotive spaces, when used properly in Bonsai, will give use so much information about vital things like: size, distance, species and age of the tree we are looking at! And therefore I dare to say that they are properly the most important part in Bonsai designing.
Below: Picture this: Night is falling and you have just reached the top of a small hill (green arrow). Despite the fading light you can just make out in the distance a silhouette of a tree. It is growing below your standing point and your eyes (yellow arrow) are looking straight at a point about 25% below the top. Just like we more or less are used to do, when we look at a Bonsai on display, only on a much smaller scale!



Above: So from were we stand, what can this silhouette of this distance tree tell use? The empty spaces in this silhouette show use were the branches are placed, how long they are, the manor in witch they grow, how many there are on the tree, from what height they start growing, how much space is between all the branches in comparison with the thickness of the trunk etc. In a instant all this info is processed in our brain, that will compare this input with all the memories we have of trees similar to this sillouete that we can see in the distance. So that link between what we see and what we remembered is quickly made and answered! Than we have a pretty good idea of what kind of tree it might be! Knowing that, we than can figure out how long this tree probably is, from witch we can than deduct how fare away it is growing from the point were we are standing! Do you get my point? If these similar but smaller empty spaces are well used in your distance Bonsai design, the brain of the viewer will recognise them, just like would happen in the open field! And it will tell him or her exactly from what distance and height he or she is looking at your Bonsai image of a distant natural looking tree! And this will give the viewer a comfortable feeling of recognition when they are studying your Bonsai, and that is half the battle won in the illusion that you wanted to creat with your work! And because these open spaces give use important information about the scale the artist is working in, a Bonsai should never be with out them among the branches and foliage. The proper use of empty spaces are invaluable for a believable and natural looking Bonsai!
It is not one good branch, nor is it two. It is the space in between them that sets them apart!

Again: These are not rules that are set! But when you study and understands these principles, it will make your Bonsai work so much more easier and in the end more believable!

Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Hi Hans.

This is a stuning explenation, I was thinking a lot about this topic and now you opened my eyes
Thanks for sharing it with us.

roland

I love what you have added to this discussion Hans. Your blog is a great resource. Thanks bud.

rolandp wrote:Hi Hans.

This is a stuning explenation, I was thinking a lot about this topic and now you opened my eyes
Thanks for sharing it with us.

roland

Jesse wrote:I love what you have added to this discussion Hans. Your blog is a great resource. Thanks bud.

Your welcome guy's!
Have a nice Bonsai weekend everybody!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.