Bucida from Mexico

Robert Steven wrote:Enrique Castano with one of his Bucida...

Now the property of Mr. Miguel Ross, owner of Tatsugoro bonsai.

Don't be too serious buddy.. I am getting old and my pissing doesn't spray that far anymore..

If you notice what I was saying, I just want to say from what I saw about the Mexican bucida. I believe you are right, thanks for your info and I appreciate your effort to prove that the Bahamian bucida is superior..but I want to say sorry that from what I saw and what you posted, you still not convinced me that the Mexican bucida is less superior. Maybe I have not seen yet the better one from Bahamian or maybe Enrique is just lucky enough to find the good material in Mexico and skill enough to turn them into nice bonsai. However, this is not important to me, I simply love to see nice bonsai and nice materials, no matter they come from nowhere...

When I say Enrique is an expert, I don't mean he invented everything and less respect the others; he may have learned from Mr. Consuegra or Mr. Alain Lioger as well. Expert doesn't mean the best and the only one or doesn't learn from someone-else. Everyone is learning from everyone as I am now learning from you too, so we don't need to prove who is better than whom, for me, in bonsai, their creations speak out everything. I can learn and I am still learning from everyone everyday even during my teaching (not kidding !).

My disagreement doesn't mean I know better, and being agreed doesn't make us better, neither.... Be fun my friend...

hi guys , yes jun if you could post a pic of the landscaping variety that would help , robert thanks ,next time i speak to montri i will ask him . btw you have got to see these gassiow i,v been getting here i know you would like them. regards john

Hey Carlos my friend!

I heard too that Sometimes Bonsai "Demi gods" fight or should I say from time to time have some disagreements too...
yup! let's all have some fun while learning.

that's funny Jun. Luckily I am more a demon....

Yes John, he plant those in his bonsai plantation which he is turning into a bonsai resort. Have you been there ?..Just to inform you all guys, if you happen to go to Bangkok, you should stay relaxing few nights at Montri's bonsai resort, huge, very nice, peaceful and beautiful place with natural rocky river...

Hi Robert n Jose, thanks vm for the informations.
Cheers,
CJ

Hi CJ, it has been quite sometimes we don't talk..

Robert, yes long time no see and no speak. Hope to see u sometime in the future. Any chance seeing u in Takamatsu? All the best to u and your family. Cheers, CJ

No CJ.. I am on my way to South Africa now and next month in Brazil. Sad to miss the Japan tour... Surely will meet you again sometimes. Best regards to your family as well..tks.

Robert Steven wrote: that's funny Jun. Luckily I am more a demon....

Yes John, he plant those in his bonsai plantation which he is turning into a bonsai resort. Have you been there ?..Just to inform you all guys, if you happen to go to Bangkok, you should stay relaxing few nights at Montri's bonsai resort, huge, very nice, peaceful and beautiful place with natural rocky river...

Does he have a golf course too?

Rob, Montri has several bonsai bungalows with hundreds of bonsai each. Of of his biggest bonsai bungalows is in Bangkok, close to the airport..and just behind it's a golf course.

BTW, I am now at Dubai airport in transit to South Africa...will meet Bill V. and Jerry Melsik there. Will post the bonsai in South Africa...

I'm sorry for being late to this comments, I been traveling and working to much the last couple of years.
First I'm quite happy to see that the tree made it ok and is growing well. Robert it was great having you in Mexico hope you can come again at some point, I have new material you wont believe, really amazing. Sadly I still need more time to work on it, but for the moment I need the trees to grow strong before anywork is done.
As for this species is quite tolerant to root prune IF YOU LET THE TREE HAVE ENOUGH ENERGY ACCUMULATED TO RECOVER!. The basic mistake people make with this species is trying to repot when the tree has not recovered, for this species it may take up to 3 years for old trees. But once they are recovered you can do whatever and they will survive, but then you are set for another time period before root prone.

Anyway the actual name for this species is Terminalia molineti, The reason is that the genera Terminalia is older than Bucida and they were found to be from the same genera. Second the species, the POINT OF ORIGEN is CUBA!!! were it was first described as Bucida molineti, therefore currently in the scientific literature it is known as Terminalia molineti. and there are several hybrids including a variegata type.
Currently I have yet to some "killer bonsai" of this species, I was a bit disappointed not seeing any in Puerto Rico for BCI or WBFF or in florida. Since they were working on this species for such a long time. I hope some of the good collected specimens are alive somewhere.

And just on the leaf color, it is due to my water, since I have very hard water so the leaves have that layer of calcium. The tree for example that I gave to Rob, was collected in 2004. Must of the trees for the demos had been collected form 2 or more years. Cheers. Enrique

Hi Enrique,

So happy to see you on IBC and thanks so much for your explaination. I am now in China..so a very short comment as I am going out for Chinese food dinner with friends...

You won't imagine how good is the one I brought home, it grows so fast, but I am not hurry to train it in good way; however, I will post it to how you.

You are teasing me to come back to Mexico, if you can let me bring another one home, I promise you I will fly back to Mexico with my own expenses...what do you say ?....Haha...ha....

Sure you can have another, I have one with the bark so deep it looks like from a cork black pine, about the same size as the one you took and nice movement, so you need to bring the same magic bag! I have another that I hope to show here in a couple of years once is ready for showing how good this species can be I call it THE ONE
Have a great time in china
CHeers
Enrique

Enrique...just tell me when you want me to come, for any reason... otherwise, I will just call you when I arrived...No Kidding....

Enrique wrote:I'm sorry for being late to this comments, I been traveling and working to much the last couple of years.
First I'm quite happy to see that the tree made it ok and is growing well. Robert it was great having you in Mexico hope you can come again at some point, I have new material you wont believe, really amazing. Sadly I still need more time to work on it, but for the moment I need the trees to grow strong before anywork is done.
As for this species is quite tolerant to root prune IF YOU LET THE TREE HAVE ENOUGH ENERGY ACCUMULATED TO RECOVER!. The basic mistake people make with this species is trying to repot when the tree has not recovered, for this species it may take up to 3 years for old trees. But once they are recovered you can do whatever and they will survive, but then you are set for another time period before root prone.
Anyway Jose, your comment "Well, well....Is it possible to agree or disagree with something you have never seen? It took me a while, but I browsed through my archives and found some interesting pictures of Bucidas that I have worked with and that have been in bonsai pots sice the late 1960's, early '70's. I think the picutures will lead to to agree of the superior quality of Bahamian Bucida." I think you statement of "superior quality" makes no sense. Also the comment as to where they grow in Mexico? Do you know where they grow???? how can you even make that claim.
one thing is to compare trees but another quite different is to say that from one country they are better than from another. Especially if you have no real fact on the comments.
Anyway the actual name for this species is Terminalia molineti, The reason is that the genera Terminalia is older than Bucida and they were found to be from the same genera. Second the species, the POINT OF ORIGEN is CUBA!!! were it was first described as Bucida molineti, therefore currently in the scientific literature it is known as Terminalia molineti. and there are several hybrids including a variegata type.
Currently I have yet to some "killer bonsai" of this species, I was a bit disappointed not seeing any in Puerto Rico for BCI or WBFF or in florida. Since they were working on this species for such a long time. I hope some of the good collected specimens are alive somewhere.

Mr. Castaño,

I know where the bucidas grow in the peninsula. One of your former humble friends and a person you treated like a slave and considered as 'below your stature' has shown me the place and I am in the position to tell you that the conditions in the Bahamas are more adverse. Because of the aforementioned, I can tell you that the ones in the Bahamas grow low to the ground, are more contorted and their 'bonsai grade' is of superior quality. The Mexican bucidas are just big and more straight. By the way, my prior comments did not reffer nor were arguments on the subject of taxonomy. I know you are an expert, but since you seem to want to start a territorial pissing about it, I can also talk a little bit about the taxonomical issues concerning this species.

I know that the origin of this species is Cuba. Jennings, Alain Liogier, Brother Leon and several other taxonimists studied this species and sub-divided them into several species (Angustifiolia/Opthicola, etc.). I personally interviewed Mr. Alain Liogier, who was the Director of the Botanical Gardens of Puerto Rico, in the late 90's on the subject and he confirmed that some differences were due to climatological conditions.

If you go to page 135 of the book "Árboles de Cuba" by Johannes Bissé, who was also the Director of the National Botanical Garden of Cuba, you will see that Terminalia and Buchenavia are botanical synonyms; Northrop establishing the Terminalia name and Jennings the genus Bucida. Mr. Gualberto Fernández Sosa, the assistant to Mr. Bissé and who now lives in Miami is a close personal friend who also confirms Terminalia and Buchenavia as extinct nomenclature. As a taxonimist, you know that every time they conduct a different study, some way or the other they try to change the name. Even politics and communism have played their role in botanical nomencalture. Anyhow, you also admit Terminalia is an older name, giving validity that the name is defunct/extinct. Perhaps and if the Cuban government sanctions a study to be conducted by you, you might try to stick your name in there somehow.

By the way and going back to your inability to see some old/collected Bucida bonsai, that's your fault. When Mr. Carlos Consuegra found out about your interest in Bucida and that you were visiting Florida, he contacted you several times in advance through Solita Rosade, without answer. He even send you copies of the book i refer to, again, without reply. You missed out on a great opportunity and on meeting a person that has been dealing with Bucida spinosa, as bonsai, since the 1970's. This experience in growing bucida as bonsai is priceless. Perhaps, because of his humble background, he is not up to your standards. I know that you are an elitist, an those without a PHD, Doctorate or Bachelor's degree do not match up to your stature. You know what, most of the bonsai artists in Latin America do not agree with your "technique" on using packing pellets as a remedy to extablish dying bonsai and with your mediocre ability in bonsai. I am sure that most of the visiting masters in your symposium thought of that as a bit odd and just plain bull crap.

Let me tell you one thing, we do recognize that, because of your studies, you have an excellent background in botany and taxonomy. When it comes to bonsai.....that's another story. Being a botanist does not make you a good bonsai artist, but you know this personally.

Robert is a good artist and will work on your generous gift and turn it into a masterpiece. That, I am sure of. He has the artisitic ability to accomplish this and more.

Cordially,

Jose Luis

Enough of the personal stuff please. This is a forum which is supposed to educate and inform - it is not for personal grievances.

This post, when it was first started some nine months ago, was described by its own posters as nearly turning into a "pissing contest". Please let's not go back there.

fiona wrote:Enough of the personal stuff please. This is a forum which is supposed to educate and inform - it is not for personal grievances.

YUP! Agree!!!!

jun wrote:

fiona wrote:Enough of the personal stuff please. This is a forum which is supposed to educate and inform - it is not for personal grievances.

YUP! Agree!!!!

Personal grievances? So, a guy takes a cheap shot and one is not entitled to set the facts straight? Can he assume that he has been the only one on earth to visit his hunting grounds and make the assumption that I am just an ignorant ass? He is not the taxonomy god you know.

See my PM please.

jrodriguez wrote:

jun wrote:

fiona wrote:Enough of the personal stuff please. This is a forum which is supposed to educate and inform - it is not for personal grievances.

YUP! Agree!!!!

Personal grievances? So, a guy takes a cheap shot and one is not entitled to set the facts straight? Can he assume that he has been the only one on earth to visit his hunting grounds and make the assumption that I am just an ignorant ass? He is not the taxonomy god you know.

Set straight what facts Jose Luis?

Most people here in IBC respect you my friend, and most are intelligent enough to give their own judgement, there is no need for you to explain anything, I think...and respect to you won't be diminished.


I think the best way to show the difference in type or quality of material from one place to another is to show examples/photos coming from these areas. that way we (the audience) can see with our own eyes which one is better.

regards,
jun

jun wrote:I think the best way to show the difference in type or quality of material from one place to another is to show examples/photos coming from these areas. that way we (the audience) can see with our own eyes which one is better.

Better yet, I challenge JLR and EC to send me samples and I will give my unbiased opinion.

***I reserve the right to keep the samples after evaluation.

Back to the original tree...any update picture Robert? I would love to see it if possible.

Poink88 wrote:Back to the original tree...any update picture Robert? I would love to see it if possible.

Hmmm...a hot cup of Chinese tea in front of my laptop...with a burning agarwood beside me (do you know what agarwood is ?..the scent can give a peaceful and relaxing mind..and this is my new business in China for the bonsai community who like drinking tea and enjoy the scent of agarwood... ))...enjoying the offer from Enrique for new Bucida, check on my schedule when I can fly there with my magic bag.. and the learn the new info from Jose's post (I will send him some agarwood.. )

Yes, back to the original tree, I will take the picture and share with you after my return home...(Hmmm..trust me, a deep breath for the agarwood make me higher than the white powder...have a beautiful weekends..buddies...).....

LOL, yes, I love to see other nice Bucida bonsai..not from Mexico please, I have seen most of them...
And this was in last November, the branches are much bigger now...