If video killed the radio star, will the Internet be the death of bonsai?

As for advice on the forum? There are enough registered members here
who DO know what they are talking about, ARE willing to offer good
advice and WILL challenge bad advice.

And, while it is their choice, there are a great number of very talented bonsaiests on here who show their trees, but never offer to help a beginner with his or her questions. Bonsai doesn't grow with that attitude, either.

Couldn't agree more Jim. That and bad advice from those who should know better are my bugbears. On a purely selfish level, I like posting my work on the forum and get a kick if someone also enjoys what I am creating. To balance this, I always try and offer advice where I can and I'm sure many others feel this way too.
As a lover of temperate trees, there is NO WAY I would ever get to see the variety of styles and species from any other medium and this site is responsible for inspiring me to attend more shows (after viewing posts on here) rather than sit back at my laptop and observe.

Hi Dave,

A very interesting thread you’ve started here. I’ve seen similar discussion on other Bonsai forums and no doubt it happens on nearly every online forum regardless of the subject.

Others who have posted a reply to your thread have said this already, but I think its up to you as an individual to take any relevant information from a post and apply it to your trees and simply ignore anything that’s not relevant to you.

Personally, my experience here on IBC has been great – I think it’s the best Bonsai forum on the web, particularly since it has many UK and European members who live in a climate similar to mine and who grow trees that live happily in that climate. I think I’d struggle to find anywhere else on the web that has as much information that I can take from and use on my trees.

If it were not for IBC, I’d probably never have gone to Fiona’s garden, never have gone to Tony’s garden, never have gone to Burrs and met all the great folk who attended (I think last year at Burrs about 90% of attendees were IBC members and nearly all actively post on this forum). When you see the quality of the trees at such an event you know that you are amongst likeminded people, all of which were only too glad to answer any questions asked of them and to share their knowledge.

Club membership has been very important for me too. I was warmly welcomed as a new member at my club over a year ago. We don’t have many members and only meet once a month to work on our trees for two hours.

Although I have learned a lot from the club nights, the short time there doesn’t satisfy by bonsai appetite. For that reason I feel the combination of attending a club, workshops and exhibitions, visiting other peoples gardens and asking questions about their trees is the only way I’m going to progress.

Without the internet and particularly IBC, I’d probably still be playing about with the little sticks in pots I had several years ago.

For me, the internet works, unlike my old video recorder

Paul

tony wrote:IBC as of today has 3090 registered members... all who could... should they wish to... post here. In any group of this size you will have individuals that are Irresponsible, Over-confident, Bad tempered, Bossy, Annoying, have too much to say, Picky, Unreliable, Anti-social and in many cases downright rude! As Mods we endeavor to deal with them.

Sorry Tony, I thought you were talking about the Mods ............I'll get my coat.

will baddeley wrote:

tony wrote:IBC as of today has 3090 registered members... all who could... should they wish to... post here. In any group of this size you will have individuals that are Irresponsible, Over-confident, Bad tempered, Bossy, Annoying, have too much to say, Picky, Unreliable, Anti-social and in many cases downright rude! As Mods we endeavor to deal with them.

Sorry Tony, I thought you were talking about the Mods ............I'll get my coat.

Well, Will, not all of them!

Russell Coker wrote:

will baddeley wrote:

tony wrote:IBC as of today has 3090 registered members... all who could... should they wish to... post here. In any group of this size you will have individuals that are Irresponsible, Over-confident, Bad tempered, Bossy, Annoying, have too much to say, Picky, Unreliable, Anti-social and in many cases downright rude! As Mods we endeavor to deal with them.

Sorry Tony, I thought you were talking about the Mods ............I'll get my coat.

Well, Will, not all of them!

Ok. I'll let off the short ginger one but only just. Too many baldie comments and disparaging remarks about my green boots.

Oh no not the Mods, I was there in '64 at Brighton in me parka hoisted up running like hell to escape the greaser with the bike chain! (For all non Brits, this is definitely a Brit thing)
That's a whole different music style

Seriously, if this thread has the effect of (a) making a poster stop and think before he derides or ridicules an honestly held opinion which is contra to his, it will have worked. (b) making a poster stop and think before giving advice on a problem or a species of tree that he either has never seen before or has no knowledge of, it will have worked.
But if it makes someone switch off their computer and go to a show or support their local society or group it will be healthier for them

Dave Martin wrote:Seriously, if this thread has the effect of:

(a) making a poster stop and think before he derides or ridicules an honestly held opinion which is contra to his, it will have worked.

(b) making a poster stop and think before giving advice on a problem or a species of tree that he either has never seen before or has no knowledge of, it will have worked.
But if it makes someone switch off their computer and go to a show or support their local society or group it will be healthier for them

Amen to that Dave

Tony,
Bet you were a rocker !

disparaging remarks about my green boots.

You realise you just admitted in public that you wear green boots, Will?

I was there in '64 at Brighton in me parka hoisted up running like hell to escape the greaser with the bike chain!

THAT'S where I recognise you from! C'mere, you pesky little scooter jockey!

Dave Martin wrote:Oh no not the Mods, I was there in '64 at Brighton in me parka hoisted up running like hell to escape the greaser with the bike chain! (For all non Brits, this is definitely a Brit thing)
That's a whole different music style

Dave,

Great music from that era, I love the clothes and the scooters too. I have great memories of the scotter rally coming to Dunbar every summer. that was the late 70's and early 80's though. I wasn't even thought of in '64

Harleyrider wrote:
THAT'S where I recognise you from! C'mere, you pesky little scooter jockey!

Are you sure it wasn't you on the Harley D 'clunker' I overtook on my Gilera 180 Runner on the M27 a couple of years ago!

Nah, couldn't possibly have been me.

I've never been on the M27 fer a start!

I am getting urges to listen to Quadrophenia.

Hey guys, I've just found - and joined the forum. This was the first topic I opened to read.
Dave, what you've written and described is so prevalent on a large number of forums - not just Bonsai orientated ones.
I was posting quite prolifically on one particular forum, but because of the 'select few' and the disdain they had for people new to Bonsai I don't post there any more. I took one to task because of some aspersions he cast about a good friend of mine - aspersions that bordered on slander. For my troubles my reply was deleted - but his stayed for a short while until I queried it with the mods - it was then deleted in total. That self-same 'elitism' is also alive and well in some clubs. I was in the defence force here in Australia for a number of years and when I got posted to a different area, I went to join the local club. Not one person even acknowledged that I was there. Nobody came and introduced themselves. They just stood around in small 'clique' groups talking to each other. I had taken a tree with me that I had grown in my previous location (which was tropical) - it was a Ficus Benjamina with Aerial Roots coming down from the branches. Eventually one guy came over (I thought he was going to introduce himself) and said: "That will die in our climate", then he went back to his little group. I picked up my tree and walked out - and I never went back.
I've been into Bonsai for about 23 years now and I am a firm believer in sharing information. Nobody can or will ever know everything there is to know about growing trees but we can all increase our knowledge by listening to others - and I don't just mean listening to the ones that think they know everything. I mean everyone. No one is ever too old to learn. If everyone that works on trees keeps everything to themselves then the art cannot advance. It is my pleasure to give advice where I can and hopefully help someone move forward with their trees. I am also not afraid of asking for advice either - as will be evident through the posts and topics I will be writing.
So, you were a (shudder) Mod were you Dave I rode real bikes in the '60's. 350cc Royal Enfield, 650cc BSA Super Rocket - with a Rocket Gold Star engine, and finally a 750cc BSA Rocket Three. Then I went to cars and eventually left the UK to make a new life here in Australia - and haven't looked back since!!!! Originally from Pontypridd and spent the last 14 years before leaving in Newport Gwent (hence the nick-name I've picked up here in Australia).

Welcome Taffy,
I hope you don't think that everyone is the same, there are good guys here.
You will find that there is a good spread of species to suit your needs in your climate.

Bit off topic I guess, but too tempting to let go without jumping on the Brit thing of 'mods n Rockers.'

My admission has to be a Norton 650SS followed by an Interstate, then a try at those Japanese bikes that changed the way 'motor-sickling' continued. Re-built an Aerial square four (wish I still had it now …sigh); but did have a great pal who was a 'mod' ex-skinhead' who had the quickest Lambretta 230cc GT, which a group of us skinned down and tuned for him; Lordy, it was fast. Did the Honda four and a Kwackers 750 triple, but my love affair concluded in those days on my trusty Triumph Trident (should have gone with a 'beeza rocket three though; what's in a name?).

Sorry all for the off topic banter, but like I say, coulden't resist Oh thse jaunts down to Brighton sea-front on a Sunday … pure unadulterated memories of wall-to-wall fun Did finally do the Harley thing for a few years recently, until arthritis sadly dictated 'off yer bike son.' Cracking machines for certain!

Just to contribute slightly on topic, I get relative enjoyment from internet based Bonsai 'stuff,' but honestly, I get more, and decide who I consider a peer when I have met and talked; and I've been very lucky indeed to have spent time with many 'greats.' Having so said … can I just say, that there are many 'un-sung' 'vets' out there, that do not participate via internet based mediums; perhaps because it is just not for them, doesn't stop them being amazing characters though, and I'm also glad I know several; they forget more than I shall ever know; which seems to be getting worse with memory loss, or as HR said elsewhere, 'information overload,' could be I guess. I've eaten my Gingko's in the hope memory would get better; not worked yet though, maybe it's baloney that GB helps.

As me dear ol Dad used to say …"Son; if you don't fully understand what you are talking about when offering help or advice, keep it zipped; no-one likes a clever-dick; especially one who gives bad or erroneous information!" OK he didn't say 'erroneous,' but it is what he meant.

Oddly, I find Dave's original post 'tailorable' to just about any hobby/interest, trade etc; and not restricted to Bonsai. Maybe the way things are now … or maybe it has always been so … and 'tinternet thingy' makes it all the more reachable; which goes full circle to what Dave originally said I saw much of it in my final working for an employer years .. muppet after muppet, and that was the board of directors!

And there was me lecturing the other day, chatting away about this European Larch on the table, and referring to Golden Larch Pseudolarix amabilis cos someone was convinced it was a proper Larch, (they had brought one in that evening); and after 5 minutes someone points at the label on the Euro Larch which clearly stated 'Japanese Larch.' which …. clearly was correct. I blamed it on having my glasses on top of my head which of course is not where they belong. No excuse on internet based though, as I can't even see the screen or keyboard without wearing them … sigh. No, I cocked up, but boy it broke the ice and we had a cracking evening, continually laughing about it. Final one from Da was …"Learn by your mistakes my boy!"

Right, I'm done …toodle oo.

Mike

Thanks for the welcome Dave.

No mate I sure don't think everyone is the same. I frequent a couple of Bonsai forums and have nothing but praise for the way they are run and the quality of information the members are happy to offer. One in particular is run in such a way, it is a real pleasure to log on. It feels like you really are among friends.
Because of the climate I live in now (sub Tropical) my preferred material is Ficus - my avatar though is a Trident Maple (but shhhh - they're not supposed to survive in our particular climate, it's way too hot and humid for them - ask some of the experts). Figs grow brilliantly here and we have a huge number of native species to choose from. I do have a large variety of trees species though - some in Bonsai pots, some in black plastics and styrene boxes and even more in 'growing on' beds down the back of our 2 acre block. I've got way too much though and at my age I think I should be cutting back a bit - quite a bit. As I go on, I'll post some photos so you can all see what I'm playing around with.

This is a very interesting topic!

but the title should (IMHO) be----"If video killed the radio star" can the internet kill a bonsai?....

....then I can give an answer-- yes sir, DEFINETELY! Internet can kill a bonsai. as what we have seen here recently.

..but the forum Per se is a very healthy medium to learn and interact. and the concoctions of the people in here is so diverse and thus makes this forum so vibrant and entertaining at some point. It's like a "melting pot" of bonsai people and bonsai design and no club in the world can offer such diversity,,(except for Rob's international club, I just joined in, hey Rob! where is my next copy of the magazine?,,hehehe).


regards,
jun

Mike,
No need to apologize after all this IS the Banter and OFF TOPIC forum after all.

Dave Martin wrote:Mike,
No need to apologize after all this IS the Banter and OFF TOPIC forum after all.

It's amazing just how sensible and wise Dad's are, like yours Mike, mine was too.

He once said to me, "A man who tells you he has never made a mistake has never made anything."

I just hope that my kids can say the same about me one day.

Hugely interesting point that Dave. At the time of course (bit like starting out in Bonsai) I could not work out what was the right advice and what may have been wrong. As with dear old Dad, at that time I knew no different really so had to assume one way or the other, he was probably right, but I had not lived long enough to know for sure.

As with Bonsai, there is much said on this tinternet thing; and indeed I have been sent links to some quite hilarious bonsai 'teaching' mpeg clips over time. I suppose really there is always more than one way to do a certain task within Bonsai and perhaps other hobbies, work etc; so much must depend on say your artistry skills (I know, that old chestnut); but honestly, I could never carve as well as Will B or Graham P, as two prime examples, and it would be good to know if either were/are (clearly) proficient at artist/drawing/other skills as a younger person and it became almost a natural ability ... maybe?

Yes, dear old Dad; what a man; when I look back he could have ruled the world, he was that clever; but then, one must assume there are millions of Dad's looked up to the world over that siblings will all say were/are the very best thing since the invention of the (whatever suits).

On a final note; with Dad in mind that is. One of his classics, which no doubt he picked up from someone along the way, is the classic one (in my humble). "If you ask six 'experts in any chosen field the same question, my boy, you must be prepared to accept that you will 'likely' receive six different answers. It is you however, who must work out which one is the right answer for you. Or ... are they all correct? Only time/experience and knowledge will allow you to know for sure!"

I feel certain he may have been watching far too much Master Po in the 1970's (Kung Fu) and when you can take the pebble from my hand ....

If video killed the radio star, will the Internet be the death of bonsai?

No.

But a lack of manners and common courtesy will.

That's absolutely right!!!