The end of the Internet - Facebook and all it's variations

In another topic, I noted yet another Bonsai discussion list - Bonsai Talk [ which used to be the name of another Forum ].
I got curious and took a Google on Bonsai Talk Facebook. It came up, but my I.Explorer couldn't pull up the page.

Side digression - I.E according to Amazon has a SSL breach, so you can't use the older one on Amazon anymore. Here comes FireFox, to the rescue, as it was back when I had 95 with a patch into 98, and then that died, hence the FireFox, back then.
All these Explorers are tiresome, and one wonders why the changes, since they don't really offer anything new or special.
The lastest Explorer just looks weird.

Anyhow, Facebook has removed the Search feature and is forcing you to join or rejoin to see anything.

I do wonder where all of this is going.

Noted on the Art Forums/ Lists, all the well trained folk from Reality land - aka Studios/Academies/ Ateliers, have left the Internet, maintaining just a site to do sales and some have dumped that.
My friend of many years, is on Facebook, she says it is how you display your wares, keep up sales etc.

As to Bonsai, I am glad, that I learnt and got into it before the Internet, as I have seen so many come on with hidden Agendas [ secretly wanting to sell or teach , collecting groupees and so on ]
I had holes with regards to the J.B.pine, but they are filled and I don't need to look anymore, I am free !!!!!!

Same happened back when I was 40 in Fine Art, missing pieces on Imaginative work, met folk who knew and were willing to share, I am free !!!!

I took away my images from Image Shack, because it was showing up on Google, these are my images, and if anyone has to be paid for using them, it should be IBC or just me, not Google.
Image Shack has no contact information, one wonders what is going on there.

The Internet went from Intellecturals, discussing to purely visual folk who can barely express their thoughts in writing.
Forums run on a cycle - the Creators, folk who work hard to build a site, 3 to 5 years later, the Maintainers arrive, nothing new is born, most of the craft has been explored, some Intellectual ideas are expressed/touched on, 3 to 5 years
again.
Lastly the Parasites, nothing new, just wanting, mostly narcissistic, impatient, copycats, and thus does the Internet die.
Laters
Khaimraj

Times change, Khaimraj. Some of us (ME!) just don't care to change with it. FB will end up going out with a whimper just as other I'net fads have and there will be some other whiz-bang thing that catches the limited attention spans of the Millennial generation and Gen-Zers. And then, it too shall pass. Ad nauseum.

The Internet went from Intellectuals, discussing to purely visual folk who can barely express their thoughts in writing.

You have never spoken truer words, and I'd add . . . "and they don't care."

Facebook is hardly the end of the internet. It's just part of the technology cycle. Eventually, either facebook will do something that will cause its own demise (like charging a fee), or someone will invent something new that will capture everyone's imagination and people will migrate to that. Or maybe terrorists or some foreign government will take down the whole internet and we'll all have to go back to the "old ways" of communicating, if that's even possible anymore.

In any case, for those of you aren't on facebook and refuse to join, that's your business. Right now, the old forums (ibc, bnut) are still active enough so that you can get your bonsai interaction on them. You will be missing out on some things, such as the very popular auction/classifieds sites, but you can always use ebay.

Interesting thing is that while facebook was started by/for the younger generation, it has become widely accepted by all. I've got aunts and uncles in their 70s and 80s who are on it, and find it very helpful to keep up with things happening among the widely dispersed cousins, grandkids, etc. I had lost track of many of my cousins and most of the people I went to school with, but I am now able to keep up with their lives. You might say that if it was that important to me, I would have kept in touch with them all even without facebook...and that is true, to an extent. But what's the difference - obviously I and many others find it beneficial and enjoyable and that's really all that matters.

Have fun...

I don't know what the big deal is about facebook making you join to search it. There are many forums that require registration to even view posts.

I think the Internet overall has been a great benefit to bonsai. It's mich easier now than ever to find information or (better yet) a person you can learn from. Twenty-five years ago I would have got a book from the library and piddled along until I killed a few trees and gave up.

JimLewis wrote:You have never spoken truer words, and I'd add . . . "and they don't care."

And may I add that they are completely unaware of their shortage/poverty.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that Khaimraj and Jim have in their minds (as I have in mine) the spiritual/intellectual/cultural aspect of the IT in general... and not just the practical.
This is all about "spiritus" and not just "res". And of course, not regarding specifically bonsai but any kind of communication level.
This is not about taking advantage to accumulate knowledge or buying a specimen bonsai at an auction on FB, this is all about something beyond materials.
Just an ignorant's opinion...

I like reading Books, and I like going to the Library. At the Library, I meet thinkers /researchers/ searchers and often they can become friends, who come over and chat, or we meet at hikes, fishing jettys, and do projects together.
I like meeting people and having conversations in reality.

I enjoy visiting family, saying hello to cousins, and look forward to visting or visiting the ones on the US, Canada, England and Italy.
Guess what - I like meeting people in reality.

I also talk to folk by telephone.

It is no effort to do so.

I have no problems paying $$$ for research, as I do on the science lists, especially if I need some research on glass.

I have no problems with genuine change, but this Internet behaviour is something else, it is easy to pick out fakes in reality, but folk can reword e-mails and appear otherwise.
I say burn the Internet, and go back to letters and libraries -
Nothing like a discussion to get over the winter blah blahs eh.
But silliness aside, the above is how I truly feel.
Laters.
Khaimraj

*******Technology does not a Civilization make. *******

Yup.

My own preference is to find the best in both worlds and run with it.

And in my own personal opinion, what will "kill" knowledge and debate is apathy. I am occasionally dismayed by students who are lazy in their research, including those who think research is copying and pasting from Wikipedia. But I am, however, ALWAYS dismayed by those who simply can't be bothered, who are totally incurious about the world around them, and/or who are so tied up with shallow things such as celebrity worshipping. I despair when it gets to the point when we have stifled the inquisitiveness out of people or where they just can't be bothered to be look something up even when that knowledge is now literally at their fingertips.

The Scottish education system recently underwent a revamp which in theory should mean less rote learning and more emphasis on research and critical thinking skills. I welcome it, but funnily enough the group most vocal against it is teachers.

I was around when people started getting away from calligraphy and going to print(not). But it did happen, and it was protested from some corners. Typewriters aided the demise of penmanship. The ipad is killing typing skills. Telephones challenged face-to-face skills. The internet doesn't allow us to practice real-time interaction. All these things have had their detractors.

But...

Can we deny that print allowed the greater dispersal of news and literature? Telephones allowed for faster communication, critical for emergency medical help for instance. The internet has literally devastated the ability of a minority being able to control access to learning and information- the isolated, the handicapped, the common man, all benefit from that.

Personally, I think variety is great. Different people excel in different ways. I'm somewhat an introvert, so I shy away from social situations more than others. thus I appreciate technology perhaps more than the gregarious face-to-facer. If I were so socially challenged that I would prefer isolation over meeting with people, I might think the internet a Godsend just for that.

I think it would be great, since I have a not-so-popular-in-my-neck-of-the-woods hobby, if I could communicate with people all over the globe, sharing my trees and what I've learned, and learning from others. Wouldn't that be nice!

I used to worry about my kids spending too much time looking at a computer screen, but while my daughter is a little more introverted like her dad and can spend more time in digitalland, my son is a little more extroverted and over time has set aside the LED screen in favor of more personal interactions.

fiona wrote:My own preference is to find the best in both worlds and run with it.

And in my own personal opinion, what will "kill" knowledge and debate is apathy.  I am occasionally dismayed by students who are lazy in their research, including those who think research is copying and pasting from Wikipedia.  But I am, however, ALWAYS dismayed by those who simply can't be bothered, who are totally incurious about the world around them, and/or who are so tied up with shallow things such as celebrity worshipping.  I despair when it gets to the point when we have stifled the inquisitiveness out of people or where they just can't be bothered to be look something up even when that knowledge is now literally at their fingertips.

The Scottish education system recently underwent a revamp which in theory should mean less rote learning and more emphasis on research and critical thinking skills.  I welcome it, but funnily enough the group most vocal against it is teachers.  

And to be fair - when we were kids, I remember plenty of classmates who simply copied verbatim from the printed encyclopedia. Now perhaps an encyclopedia was a more "substantial" reference source than wikipedia (though I've seen some highly technical and very accurate information there), but it's still a symptom of that same laziness/apathy, lack of curiosity, etc.

I agree with the idea to find the best of both worlds and that's what I try to do. I'm sure many have slipped a bit too far into the virtual world, and it will be very interesting to see how that resolves. But every generation says the same types of things about the younger generation and so far the world has managed to survive, so I'm not too worried.

Now, as I like to say when these kinds of discussions get going - GET OFF MY LAWN!

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Anyhow, Facebook has removed the Search feature and is forcing you to join or rejoin to see anything.
I do wonder where all of this is going.

one cannot be counted among the numbers of the beast unless you are registered with the beast
and the beast needs to know where to send the invoice when it comes due  








JUST KIDDING !!!
(kind-of)


the internet rules and sucks at the same time and should be treated accordingly.
simple as that.

coh wrote:

Now, as I like to say when these kinds of discussions get going - GET OFF MY LAWN!

And to be fair - when we were kids, I remember plenty of classmates who simply copied verbatim from the printed encyclopedia. Now perhaps an encyclopedia was a more "substantial" reference source than wikipedia (though I've seen some highly technical and very accurate information there), but it's still a symptom of that same laziness/apathy, lack of curiosity, etc.

But I'll say this about that . . . at least when a "student" retyped something verbatim from an encyclopaedia, he or she actually learned something by the act of reading it, choosing what was worth the effort of repeating, and typing it.  Plagerizers from Wikipedia, et. al. merely highlight-copy-paste-GONE.

And I used to be a detractor of Wikipedia, but I have to say its developers and maintainers are doing a pretty good job keeping it pure.  Misleading information doesn't stay long after it is highlighted by someone.  Though, if I were a teacher, I'd probably insist upon a more scholarly traditional reference citation from my students.

Gad . . . was I ever a 'kid"?

I remember on another list, someone saying that his wife the professor, didn't like how teenagers were beginning to behave.Was it - as though they were owed something?

Fiona,
when I was in Forest Reserve, the oil camp was very English, and we were spoilt, swimming pools, golf courses, football and cricket coaches on a private field, sports club, as well as houses with internal plumbing, pumped cooking gas and constant electricity. [ Most of the island was still outhouses and water shortages .]
The schooling was geared to Research, and not - get a job - as is seen in a normal Trinidadian school.

The Research situation-
The idea was one would get a job in some area of Science, Medicine, Engineering, at Oxford or Cambridge, or one would become a Writer, Poet, Fine Artist, Artisan, Artiste and so on.
Learning was a joy, we had tests, placements [ 1st,2nd 3rd..... ] and somehow no was embarrassed or shamed, as they seem to be today, so there are no placements in local schools.

We have taken a big step backwards, removed the International exams, so movement into Universities abroad is difficult and laptop computers are free for everyone.
I spend a good deal of time showing my cousins how to use them for other than Youtube, Facebook or Twitter.
Research is not easy for them as their spelling, English is weak [ worse than my speech and I am pretty bad, only a B in English in o'levels, as embarassing as that is.]

Everything seems to be going backwards, as the electronic toys become more prevalent.
Later.
Khaimraj

** Jim, we still have the normal Encyclopaedias on-line, Wiki is at times still chancey.

Just teasing,

Jim, I didn't know you were a young goat
Buone Natale
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:I remember on another list, someone saying that his wife the professor, didn't like how teenagers were beginning to behave.Was it - as though they were owed something?

You're probably thinking of someone else, but I know I've made that kind of comment before. My wife has been a faculty member at 2 universities and has been teaching/doing research with students for a little over 15 years. She has definitely seen some ominous trends in the students, both in terms of their overall preparation (basic math, verbal, reasoning skills) and in their willingness to put in the hard work required to excel. Many factors are probably involved...so it's difficult to determine how much blame to place on the internet versus, say, the trend that saw everyone get participation trophies with no one winning/losing (I guess, everyone being a winner). She and her colleagues say that students today have a sense of entitlement that was never present before, they want to be spoon fed everything without having to work or think about things. That actually concerns me as much (or more) than the level of virtual interaction that takes place.

Chris

No Chris,

it was your comment, I was being a bit mischievous, HUMBLE APOLOGIES, it was not meant to be insulting in any way.

David,

years ago say around 2004, the Atelier/Studio trained folk were taking a lot of flak on an Art List, so we set out to find out just who these folk were. 20 or so individuals.

This is what we found out,

[1] Anti-social in reality.
[2] Employment at poverty level.
[3] Copying what they figured they could master - Usually Van Gogh or Picasso, or Dali in his non-realism mode or just about any Modernist and lots of Photographs.
[4]Trying for sales and often schemes at sales.
[5] Education at the High school level, but without graduating
[6] Flexible morals and ethics.

So for me, nothing wrong with being introverted, just no hidden agendas.

One or two had also been to jail or had family in jail.

Today, I don't take too many folk on the Internet seriously.

One of the first folk I made friends with on the Internet in Bonsai was big time Hacker.
How's that for past happenings
Until,
Khaimraj

* House cleaning and family is helping, I can't handle dust.

I will say this about the internet- right now it resembles the wild, wild west (united states) of 150 years ago. Nearly impossible to police adequately, and a lot of willingness to 'profit' at others' expense. (It is just a coincidence that the description also fits our Congress of today).

It's really no different then anything else. In this CYA (cover your ass) world good people do good things. Evil does evil. The inter webs just make it easier. It's really all about your intentions and cya.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook, or Wikipedia will destroy what took millions of years to develop.  The brain is flexible enough to adapt to changing environments...which is probably why there are 6 billion of us.  I honestly think that most children will grow up to become just as good or better adults than we are.  

Steve

Steve,

there is probably a constant % of creative folk, who will lead the world on in research.
Probably less than 0.5% of the entire world population.
As I told a friend, after one crosses 40 to 50 years of age, the mind refocuses and starts looking at other situations / values. Which have always been there, historically, just seems to be new.

However, that still does not soften the - I am owed everything for free - attitude or as it was originally called - the feel good society.
Later.
Khaimraj

We can argue the panoply of topics, concerning everything concerning human endeavour and find an equal amount of information to prove what ever we want to believe. All we can do is hold ourselves accountable for what we do, and where we do it, and who we do it with, and to.

Vance Wood wrote:All we can do is hold ourselves accountable for what we do, and where we do it, and who we do it with, and to.

amen brother !
can i get a witness !?!?!

i love this abe lincoln quote:

"when i do good, i feel good.
when i do bad, i feel bad.
that is my religion."

i love this abe lincoln quote:

"when i do good, i feel good.
when i do bad, i feel bad.
that is my religion."

But I bet he used proper capitalization. Get off your damn phone, Kevin!

Now what about those dammned Phones and Tablets, geez, everything is a memory or poor English.
Hmmph -

And so Kevin bore the brunt of the angered Elders, down to his electronic socks -

Music to die by , so much for 600 million years of evolution -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7jSp2xmmEE

Enjoy.
Khaimraj