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Crataegus 2010

+15
Budi Sulistyo
dorothy7774
杰遨-jie
Kev Bailey
bonsaimeister
Pavel Slovák
Hans van Meer.
ogie
alex e
Andrija Zokic
pozzana
Storm
Todd Ellis
Rudi_G
Karl Thier
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Post  Karl Thier Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:08 pm

Hello people, two Crataegus from my collection. Crataegus 2010 Cratae10Crataegus 2010 Cratae13Crataegus 2010 Cratae14Crataegus 2010 Cratae15
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Post  Rudi_G Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:45 pm

Karl, these are lovely and the fruits are so attractive.


Last edited by Rudi Guacena on Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Todd Ellis Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:16 am

Karl, these are lovely trees. I particularly like the second one.
Salut, Todd
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Post  Storm Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:19 am

Very nice. I really like number 2. The berries made a special feeling to it.
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Post  pozzana Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:33 am

lovely fruits!
congrats!
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Post  Andrija Zokic Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:25 am

They look great. In proper pots will be even much better.
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Post  Karl Thier Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:17 pm

Andrija Zokic wrote:They look great. In proper pots will be even much better.
Andrija, all here shown Crataegus get new pots. Here is another Hawthorn.
Crataegus 2010 Cratae16
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Post  Guest Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:05 pm

Hello Karl. I really like the third one. I hope you don't mind me saying but the first 2 look like Larch to me. The crowns need some upward branching in my opinion.

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Post  alex e Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:46 am

will baddeley wrote:Hello Karl. I really like the third one. I hope you don't mind me saying but the first 2 look like Larch to me. The crowns need some upward branching in my opinion.

Snap!! I to thought the first 2 pictures were of Larch scratch

regards Alex e
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Post  Karl Thier Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:53 pm

will baddeley wrote:Hello Karl. I really like the third one. I hope you don't mind me saying but the first 2 look like Larch to me. The crowns need some upward branching in my opinion.

Hi Will, I style all my deciduous trees as the first time. In two to three years, the new branches grow into the air and then it looks as it should be.
Here is the next Crataegus.
Crataegus 2010 Baumkr10Crataegus 2010 Cratae17
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Post  Guest Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:55 pm

I see what your trying to achieve but its very rare to see weeping primary branches in the crown of a deciduous tree.

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Post  Karl Thier Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:35 pm

will baddeley wrote:I see what your trying to achieve but its very rare to see weeping primary branches in the crown of a deciduous tree.

Will, also in Italy designed to deciduous trees as I do. Here is a very good Italian Designers. http://www.giacomopappalardo.com/
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Post  ogie Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:15 pm

Great tree Karl.....Thanks for sharing and keep on posting,good design for the upcoming

Regards,
Alex
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Post  Guest Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:14 am

Hello Karl. I am a huge fan of Mr Pappalardo and his semi cascade Juniper, ( no 7 on the link ) is at the top end of my top 10 favourite trees. Fantastic styling of Pines and Junipers but I feel the deciduouse trees are often styled in the same way. Still beautifully styled but lacking the deciduous feel and form.

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Post  Hans van Meer. Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:36 am

will baddeley wrote: Fantastic styling of Pines and Junipers but I feel the deciduouse trees are often styled in the same way. Still beautifully styled but lacking the deciduous feel and form.

My thoughts exactly Will ! You see this way of styling more and more in exhibitions around Europe. Oak and Olive styled like Juniper and Pine. They are often beautifully styled, but they give off the wrong feeling in my opinion.
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.
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Post  Guest Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:51 am

Hans van Meer. wrote:
will baddeley wrote: Fantastic styling of Pines and Junipers but I feel the deciduouse trees are often styled in the same way. Still beautifully styled but lacking the deciduous feel and form.

My thoughts exactly Will ! You see this way of styling more and more in exhibitions around Europe. Oak and Olive styled like Juniper and Pine. They are often beautifully styled, but they give off the wrong feeling in my opinion.
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Same opinion. Lets see a change.

Regards
Morten

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Post  Pavel Slovák Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:35 am

Morten Albek wrote:
Hans van Meer. wrote:
will baddeley wrote: Fantastic styling of Pines and Junipers but I feel the deciduouse trees are often styled in the same way. Still beautifully styled but lacking the deciduous feel and form.

My thoughts exactly Will ! You see this way of styling more and more in exhibitions around Europe. Oak and Olive styled like Juniper and Pine. They are often beautifully styled, but they give off the wrong feeling in my opinion.
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Same opinion. Lets see a change.

Regards
Morten

Yes, I agree. Often there is no difference between the shape of deciduous and pine trees, juniper. As if was often only one style crown - Pine, Junipers deployed on a different trunk. It's a shame sometimes.

Pavel
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Post  Karl Thier Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:45 pm

Maybe someone makes to show the work as it would make my Crataegus.
I still have a Crataegus Larix. Rolling Eyes Crataegus 2010 Cratae18
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Post  Karl Thier Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:08 pm

Hans van Meer. wrote:
will baddeley wrote: Fantastic styling of Pines and Junipers but I feel the deciduouse trees are often styled in the same way. Still beautifully styled but lacking the deciduous feel and form.

My thoughts exactly Will ! You see this way of styling more and more in exhibitions around Europe. Oak and Olive styled like Juniper and Pine. They are often beautifully styled, but they give off the wrong feeling in my opinion.
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.
Hi Hans, I appreciate you very much, but if I'm not mistaken wrong then you've designed your Crataegus in the crown so. Or am I wrong. Shocked
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Post  bonsaimeister Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:26 pm

Hello Karl,
Here is a poor virtual of my vision for your crataegus:
Crataegus 2010 Cratae10

Best Regards,
Bonsaimeister


Last edited by bonsaimeister on Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
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Post  Kev Bailey Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:02 pm

That's it BM!

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Post  Hans van Meer. Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:41 am

Karl Thier wrote:
Hans van Meer. wrote:
will baddeley wrote: Fantastic styling of Pines and Junipers but I feel the deciduouse trees are often styled in the same way. Still beautifully styled but lacking the deciduous feel and form.

My thoughts exactly Will ! You see this way of styling more and more in exhibitions around Europe. Oak and Olive styled like Juniper and Pine. They are often beautifully styled, but they give off the wrong feeling in my opinion.
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.
Hi Hans, I appreciate you very much, but if I'm not mistaken wrong then you've designed your Crataegus in the crown so. Or am I wrong. Shocked

Hi Karl, I am sorry if you misunderstood the meaning of my reply. My reply was not so much made about the way you shape your top, it was more meant towards what Will Baddeley sad about the trees in the link you gave us.
And I also appreciate you very much Karl! What I like most about you is that you have a own style and vision and you are obviously very driven and passionate. But I am not a big fan of bending top branches down if you want to represent a liking image of a full grown deciduous tree in nature! There are some exceptions to that rule, and that is in free style bonsai, literati, smaller or cascading trees. And yes I did this bending down of top branches my self on my literati crataegus, that is shaped like no real Crataegus would ever look in nature. But I styled that one a long time ago, it looks nice enough, but I would not style it again in that way if I had to make the same tree over again!
So no hard feelings I hope Karl.
Here are two of my Dutch yamadori crataegus. They are still in the early part of there training. And the pictures are from last year, but they give the impression of how I try to style the trees that are more or les styled in a natural/posible form now a days.

Crataegus 2010 665_ha10

Crataegus 2010 617-1210

Cheers,
Hans van Meer.
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Post  杰遨-jie Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:10 am

it depends on the tree it depends on the artist and how the artist sees the tree...im a traditionalist when it comes to bonsai and i follow the rules made by the japanese.(most all tree's have an apex)..We style our tree's with this foundation and once we know the rules they can sometimes be broken or changed or modernized alittle bit.I really enjoy karl's tree's and i can catch the feeling too.For a bonsai enthusiast who is trained in the classic or traditional style we view our tree's different and may have a different feeling than others. personally if they were my hawthorn given they are so nice I would put an apex on them since they climb their way up to one^^ cyclops
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Post  Guest Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:08 am

jie,
Karl's trees got apexes too, the only issue is that they were styled the "wrong" way as perceived in traditional and natural sense.
...in other way of saying it- let pines be pine and let crataegus be crataegus.
...IMHO- if Karl knows that his crataegus was designed like a pine and still proceed with his own style because he wanted it that way, and he is happy with it I think there is nothing wrong with it (tree).
I think the designer of the trees should be the one to be satisfied first...and other peoples (viewers of the art) opinion is just secondary to the artist freedom of expression.

regards,
jun Smile

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Post  杰遨-jie Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:35 am

Very Happy
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