what could i do with this large tree?

I have just seen this and wondering if worth getting and cutting right down for the large bark and and getting to re grow with smaller branches


Would it be worth my time, can you see some good potential with it, to buy and the petrol money to get about 40miles away

Scots Pine or Japanese White Pine?  Either way it all depends on your ability to work with extreme material.  Your normal cut back casually weekend bonsai grower approach probably will not be able to make anything but a pile of tooth picks.  From what I see the only solution is to cut back the large trunk by 75% and style the tree from the hoped for back budding from the lower pranches after they are cut back severely.  This is not a one weekend solution tree.

The question: Is it worth it remains in the It depends category.

It will be very difficult to chase the foliage back to the trunk.not good material in my estimation.

Spend your time on better material, lots of bonsai resources in UK.

Best,

Augustine

good answers

im going to keep looking in the wild

I think it could be an interesting subject to experiment thread grafting, bringing the top of the first branch on the left closer down on the trunk.

Interesting idea by AlainK

its been left to grow unchecked for too many years - branches too long, too bare, too leggy - I'd keep looking for material with plenty of bonsai potential - like this one   

Hi marc. I'm afraid Marcus and most of the other posters are correct; this material has little going for it and has probably passed a point where any sort of back-budding would take massive effort and a heckuva long time.

Good luck with searching in the wild, but there are a couple of points to bear in mind in that quest, both to do with how "workable" the material is: first, you need to know exactly what genus and species you are looking at when you come upon something you think is suitable. This has massive implications for both the immediate and the long-term aftercare, as well as for the styling potential - e.g. will it have leaves that can reduce easily, are the branches easily bendable and so on. Second, you need to be able to determine if the tree is workable material in terms of styling - meaning by this has it already passed a point of no return like the one you have posted in this thread.

I am not trying to slap you down here. Most of us, myself most certainly included, have all gone out and dug up something in our early enthusiasm only to find it completely unsuitable. Wasted time and effort for us, and most certainly a loss to the environment we have in our misguided enthusiasm plucked things from.

That certainly is a ratty looking pine and I'm not here to argue with such expert opinions, but I would like to show what can be done.

This is a mugo pine that I got four years ago. The tree was extremely potbound and as you can see, looking sad.


This is the same tree after four years growing in the full sun, a little snip and clip and lots of food and water.


I think this tree is ready to be dug and potted and lets go to work! Sincerly, Rick

Rick, I don't think anyone is saying it cant be done - merely that for a novice it would be a tall order and would at the very least, take quite some considerable time to get it to a point where styling could be considered far less actually do anything.

I have read through this thread twice and I still do not see any reference to what species of Pine this is. This second set of pictures showing a tree in a pot is almost certainly Scots Pine.  This species of Pine can be made to back bud profusely but it is a time consuming process.  I also do not think the tree is beyond redemption.  Look at the branch structure I would almost bet there is the possibility of a decent tree hiding in there.  There are certainly enough branches, and I think it would be monumentally wrong to desert the tree. I just realized that this was in response to the second tree, Marcus' tree, not Marc74's tree.

Hi Fiona, I agree totally! I would not buy this tree, keep shopping. I did not intentionally buy my tree either, it came in a closeout lot that I bought from a nursery going out of business.

However, the question was posed as, 'what can be done?' and I think I showed a good example of what can be done, with proper care and dedication. If I did in deed offend, I do sincerly apologize. Sincerly, Rick

RKatzin wrote:That certainly is a ratty looking pine and I'm not here to argue with such expert opinions, but I would like to show what can be done.

This is a mugo pine that I got four years ago. The tree was extremely potbound and as you can see, looking sad.


This is the same tree after four years growing in the full sun, a little snip and clip and lots of food and water.


I think this tree is ready to be dug and potted and lets go to work! Sincerly, Rick

Thanks for posting this. Mugos respond well if you treat them right and so do Scots Pines which I believe the tree in question is.

Thank you, Vance. I'll have lots of questions for you when it comes time to dig and train this and a few other mugos I've been growing, pretty much following your advice, you're my mugo guru  . Thanks again, Rick

p.s.- I do have an advantage in that mugos do very well here in SW Oregon, with very little added assistance.

RKatzin wrote:Thank you, Vance. I'll have lots of questions for you when it comes time to dig and train this and a few other mugos I've been growing, pretty much following your advice, you're my mugo guru  . Thanks again, Rick

p.s.- I do have an advantage in that mugos do very well here in SW Oregon, with very little added assistance.

Thank You for your words of praise, I hope to help you as much as I am able and not disappoint you.  Understanding that you seem to be experienced with Mugo in your area how do you deal with the so-called-legendary hard to repot issue in Oregon?  How many people out there (from my point of view) do you know that actually work on the tree.  If so what do they do, if not why?  As to the tree you have planted in the ground and regrown from that sorry little potted Mugo. The last time I did one like that it was dug from a nursery bed, probably the same size as yours, in August of 1999 with the temperature hovering around 105*F.  It grew as though it had not been touched.  Next spring it grew like it had not been touched.  However the next spring I used it for a spring time demo and lost it.  It is, at least in my experience, dangerous to repot them in the Spring.  When I do them in the summer it seems that I can do anything with them.

Vance Wood wrote:with the temperature hovering around 105*F.

Remind me; what does this feel like?   

Not something we experience too much over here.

 That's really funny Fiona! You know, I've always wanted to visit Scotland, because I love the winters here in SW Oregon! Even now looking out at mist covered mountains and overcast sky.A slight drizzle, mostly coming straight down, with little water berries dangling on the twigs of the trees. Prunus blossums and willows in pale green leaf. Does that sound like a fine Scotish morning? Now, come summer that all goes away and we'll be dancing in the 100's, drier than a desert and not a drop a rain! That's when I'm thinking of Scotland!  Oh, yeah, it feels like a Swedish sauna!

Vance-I do wish I could provide more info, but alas, I am an isolated individual here and can not relate anyones experience, but my own.

The mugo was one of my first trees and I still have my first mugo. I treated it poorly, to say the least. I did everything wrong at the wrong time and still it persisted. It was one of those yard and garden nursery stock trees prunned into a dome. I don't know that it will ever make a bonsai, but I have so much respect for that tree it will always have a place on my bench.

The one thing worth noting that I can see really had a big impact on my mugo projects and that is the sun. I have three in full sun and they are the most robust. I have a few in partial shade and one that gets very little direct sun. They are healthy, I'll give them that, but definitely not showing the sea of candles like you see in the full sun tree pictured. This summer I will be moving all my mugo out into the full sun. The three that were in the full sun for the same time are ready to begin training and the others need to get a couple of years of full sun to fill them out.

Contrariwise- I have managed to kill every Scots Pine that I've laid my hand to, either by ignorance or poor stock. They don't seem to be as forgiving as the mugo. Rick

Thanks for your frank response.  Try treating your Scots like you do Mugos and see what happens.

Literati, perhaps, but if you haven't bought it yet I'd keep looking.

RKatzin wrote: That's really funny Fiona! You know, I've always wanted to visit Scotland, because I love the winters here in SW Oregon! Even now looking out at mist covered mountains and overcast sky.A slight drizzle, mostly coming straight down, with little water berries dangling on the twigs of the trees. Prunus blossums and willows in pale green leaf. Does that sound like a fine Scotish morning? Now, come summer that all goes away and we'll be dancing in the 100's, drier than a desert and not a drop a rain! That's when I'm thinking of Scotland!  Oh, yeah, it feels like a Swedish sauna!

Vance-I do wish I could provide more info, but alas, I am an isolated individual here and can not relate anyones experience, but my own.

The mugo was one of my first trees and I still have my first mugo. I treated it poorly, to say the least. I did everything wrong at the wrong time and still it persisted. It was one of those yard and garden nursery stock trees prunned into a dome. I don't know that it will ever make a bonsai, but I have so much respect for that tree it will always have a place on my bench.

The one thing worth noting that I can see really had a big impact on my mugo projects and that is the sun. I have three in full sun and they are the most robust. I have a few in partial shade and one that gets very little direct sun. They are healthy, I'll give them that, but definitely not showing the sea of candles like you see in the full sun tree pictured. This summer I will be moving all my mugo out into the full sun. The three that were in the full sun for the same time are ready to begin training and the others need to get a couple of years of full sun to fill them out.

Contrariwise- I have managed to kill every Scots Pine that I've laid my hand to, either by ignorance or poor stock. They don't seem to be as forgiving as the mugo. Rick

I know this is kind of dredging up an older post but, on looking at it again I noticed you mentioned a problem with Scots Pine. As I mentioned earlier try treating them the same way you treat Mugo Pine, you seem to have good luck there with the Mugo. However; the literature would seem to confirm a similarity with the Mugo in that they are fussy with Spring repotting. I repot all of my Scots Pines in the middle of the summer the same way I repot my Mugos. I have never lost a Scots or a Mugo doing it this way. Both trees like a lot of water but don't like sitting in water, I have found that they like to be watered frequently but have to have a well draining soil. It is an issue of forcing the soil to breath. This will hinder the formation of root rot. Root rot can only occur where a soil has become the harbor for stagnant warter.