Re: Chinese landscape

tap pi lu Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:55 am

I try to measure the State of the computer. so in fact the size of it?

Khaimraj Seepersad Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:23 am

Andre',

try this - [1] This penjing looks too much like a Western attempt and this is also why it may be so appealing?
Is this the end of the Chinese individuality ?

[2] What the viewer brings to table, is really the effect the composition will have on him or her?
Memories.

Try a glass of quality Cognac, the memory there is will do more than a glass of wine.
Later.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:32 pm

http://vimeo.com/52740420

Andre Beaurain Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:34 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Andre',

try this - [1] This penjing looks too much like a Western attempt and this is also why it may be so appealing?
Is this a negative thing?
Is this the end of the Chinese individuality ?
..and the beginning of something global.....

[2] What the viewer brings to table, is really the effect the composition will have on him or her?
Memories.

Try a glass of quality Cognac, the memory there is will do more than a glass of wine.
O no no my friend , not when you live in the heart of the Cape vineyards ....and I doubt that it is as healthy as one glass of red wine.....
Later.
Khaimraj

Andre Beaurain Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:40 pm

tap pi lu wrote:I try to measure the State of the computer. so in fact the size of it?

I don't understand what you are trying to say? With the measurements and the question of the 9cm tree at the top....is it wrong?

Khaimraj and Tap pi lu, don't you guys like this Penjing?

Love and light

roberthu526 Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:13 pm

As a Chinese who lives in the US currently, I think Chinese Penjing and Janpanese Bonsai are quite different from the root: the main focus of Penjing is to show the nature in a much smaller scale to those who do not have the chance to go to the actual place, say a mountain or water fall, to enjoy the view. So a lot of the great Penjings you see presents the most natural side of the sights, not just trees. Penjing do not necessarily focus on the perfection of the apperance of the tranks or branches, by this I mean they do not have to cover or heal all cut wounds or scars. As a matter of fact, sometimes scars are promoted to show the true image of the trees in the wild.
I also want to elabrate a little on the style "Literature" or in Japanese "bunjin-gi". I see many people in the West try to understand this sytle but found it hard. It is not suprising because it is really something only existed in China. This particular style in Chinese is 文人 which means people who writes article and most of the time, poems in the ancient times. They tend to see themselves as very moral, proud and talented group and they often felt the need to express their most honest opinions with no consideration of the possible consequencies, which usually led them poor lives. So there is no surprise that most of the 文人 in Chinese history appears very skinny, poor, but always had their heads up. No take a look at the picture I found on the internet. It is the most famous 文人in Chinese whose name is 李白. Almost all Chinese know him and know some of his poems. (I am not sure how to insert photos so please click on the links below.)

http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbnid=B_2QMgRU_Xhv4M:&imgrefurl=http://culture.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/402956.shtml&docid=zwjJ4DCCOLgP0M&imgurl=http://upload.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/1358147976220.jpg&w=500&h=748&ei=zmxMUvSZIYbU9QSuxYDYDA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:87&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=173&tbnw=115&start=0&ndsp=42&tx=38&ty=89
http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbnid=B_2QMgRU_Xhv4M:&imgrefurl=http://culture.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/402956.shtml&docid=zwjJ4DCCOLgP0M&imgurl=http://upload.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/1358147976220.jpg&w=500&h=748&ei=zmxMUvSZIYbU9QSuxYDYDA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:87&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=173&tbnw=115&start=0&ndsp=42&tx=38&ty=89
Chinese landscape - Page 2 0114

Chinese landscape - Page 2 1358147976220

Now think about the Literature Style in Bonsai or Penjing, hopefully you will be able to find some similiarity.

dorothy7774 Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:33 pm

roberthu526 wrote:As a Chinese who lives in the US currently, I think Chinese Penjing and Janpanese Bonsai are quite different from the root: the main focus of Penjing is to show the nature in a much smaller scale to those who do not have the chance to go to the actual place, say a mountain or water fall, to enjoy the view. So a lot of the great Penjings you see presents the most natural side of the sights, not just trees. Penjing do not necessarily focus on the perfection of the apperance of the tranks or branches, by this I mean they do not have to cover or heal all cut wounds or scars. As a matter of fact, sometimes scars are promoted to show the true image of the trees in the wild.
I also want to elabrate a little on the style "Literature" or in Japanese "bunjin-gi". I see many people in the West try to understand this sytle but found it hard. It is not suprising because it is really something only existed in China. This particular style in Chinese is 文人 which means people who writes article and most of the time, poems in the ancient times. They tend to see themselves as very moral, proud and talented group and they often felt the need to express their most honest opinions with no consideration of the possible consequencies, which usually led them poor lives. So there is no surprise that most of the 文人 in Chinese history appears very skinny, poor, but always had their heads up. No take a look at the picture I found on the internet. It is the most famous 文人in Chinese whose name is 李白. Almost all Chinese know him and know some of his poems. (I am not sure how to insert photos so please click on the links below.)

Now think about the Literature Style in Bonsai or Penjing, hopefully you will be able to find some similiarity.

Very interesting! Thank you much.

Best,
Dorothy

AdrianoOliveira Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:42 pm

roberthu526 wrote:As a Chinese who lives in the US currently, I think Chinese Penjing and Janpanese Bonsai are quite different from the root: the main focus of Penjing is to show the nature in a much smaller scale to those who do not have the chance to go to the actual place, say a mountain or water fall, to enjoy the view. So a lot of the great Penjings you see presents the most natural side of the sights, not just trees. Penjing do not necessarily focus on the perfection of the apperance of the tranks or branches, by this I mean they do not have to cover or heal all cut wounds or scars. As a matter of fact, sometimes scars are promoted to show the true image of the trees in the wild.
I also want to elabrate a little on the style "Literature" or in Japanese "bunjin-gi". I see many people in the West try to understand this sytle but found it hard. It is not suprising because it is really something only existed in China. This particular style in Chinese is 文人 which means people who writes article and most of the time, poems in the ancient times. They tend to see themselves as very moral, proud and talented group and they often felt the need to express their most honest opinions with no consideration of the possible consequencies, which usually led them poor lives. So there is no surprise that most of the 文人 in Chinese history appears very skinny, poor, but always had their heads up. No take a look at the picture I found on the internet. It is the most famous 文人in Chinese whose name is 李白. Almost all Chinese know him and know some of his poems. (I am not sure how to insert photos so please click on the links below.)

http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbnid=B_2QMgRU_Xhv4M:&imgrefurl=http://culture.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/402956.shtml&docid=zwjJ4DCCOLgP0M&imgurl=http://upload.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/1358147976220.jpg&w=500&h=748&ei=zmxMUvSZIYbU9QSuxYDYDA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:87&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=173&tbnw=115&start=0&ndsp=42&tx=38&ty=89
http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&tbnid=B_2QMgRU_Xhv4M:&imgrefurl=http://culture.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/402956.shtml&docid=zwjJ4DCCOLgP0M&imgurl=http://upload.tianhenet.com.cn/2013/0114/1358147976220.jpg&w=500&h=748&ei=zmxMUvSZIYbU9QSuxYDYDA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:87&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=173&tbnw=115&start=0&ndsp=42&tx=38&ty=89

Now think about the Literature Style in Bonsai or Penjing, hopefully you will be able to find some similiarity.

Thank you for this great explanation! I am trying to understand the Literati style and your post came opportunely.

William N. Valavanis Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:19 pm

I am quite pleased that so many people, including Walter who took my image from my blog, have found it interesting and has produced so much discussion.

This copyrighted image was taken at the recent WBFF display in Jintan, China. It was displayed outdoors and was positioned on the other side of the wall on the right side of the entrance way. It is a bit smaller in size than the penjing outside the wall directly behind it. I'm not certain on the exact size, but many men, or a forklift trunk are necessary to move this beautiful, heavy and large size penjing.

I'm still in China, traveling and studying penjing as part of an international forum on penjing. There are about 24 people here from 18 countries and I'm representing the United States. In a couple of hours I must make my presentation on the history and culture of bonsai in the United States.

Additional photos and information can be seen in my blog:
Valavanisbonsaiblog.com
and in future issues of International BONSAI magazine.

Bill

Khaimraj Seepersad Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:57 am

Andre',

what I prize about Penjing or Bonsai is individuality. When something individual starts to look global, it gets boring.

Cognac is consumed as a tablespoon in a large globe, sniffed more than drunk, and used for contemplation.

This would not have been the penjing I would have written home about, but then I am probably more Chinese in my taste than I let on.

Saluting the moon and enjoying the inspiration that she sends as the wine both warms my soul and awakens my contemplation, as the muse descends to aid me in sub-creation.
I raise my teabowl to you Andre', and as my Cedros bee [ plain of leaf orchid ] scents the air only as the scent of kings can do.
Later.
Khaimraj [ stamps his feet and summons a cloud, off to visit Wen Chang ]

* Andre' you need to remind yourself that I am an Imaginative Multi-figurative painter [ As the North Americans call it ]
Individuality is the premium.

If you looked up either Titian or Giorgione, you would have seen the beginning of outdoor landscape [ Plein Air] and the the first European attempts to decode the shapes of trees. Easy for you to follow.

Walter Pall Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:13 am

I have to apologize to bill Valavanis for using his image. I found it on Facebook where this and similar ones are floating around dozens of times without mentioning a source. I only found out after using it here that the original came form the blog of Bill Valavanis. Bill wrote several great articles about his adventures in China: http://valavanisbonsaiblog.com/]

tap pi lu Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:02 am

Andre Beaurain wrote:
tap pi lu wrote:I try to measure the State of the computer. so in fact the size of it?
I don't understand what you are trying to say? With the measurements and the question of the 9cm tree at the top....is it wrong?

Khaimraj and Tap pi lu, don't you guys like this Penjing?

Love and light

well I was confused when using computers. I don't imagine the size of works.

Andre Beaurain Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:14 am

But do you like it Tap pi lu?

I'm not going to criticize you, I would just like to know for interest sake.

Love and light

tap pi lu Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:52 am

Hi Andre: a majestic landscape, of course I like it.

yogesh Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:27 pm

still cannot believe it....
only God can do this

bonsaisr Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:35 pm

yog wrote:
only God can do this

When we take rocks & trees and form bonsai or penjing, we are junior partners with the Creator. A good bonsai, like this one, contains the Shekhina, the Holy Spirit, Mana in Sanskrit.
Iris

brett2013 Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:30 pm

Beautiful indeed ... it reminds me of ... China ... excellent work by whoever worked on it

Walter Pall wrote:This image of a penjing at the present WBFF convention in China impressed me deeply. Look at the first image and see a great landscape. How about having this as bonsai? Impossible? Look at the second one. This could be the future of bonsai when the Chinese will be getting serious.

bacruongbonsai Wed May 07, 2014 11:15 am

Walter Pall wrote:This image of a penjing at the present WBFF convention in China impressed me deeply. Look at the first image and see a great landscape. How about having this as bonsai? Impossible? Look at the second one. This could be the future of bonsai when the Chinese will be getting serious.

Thank very much. Very nice. you are my idol.

Vance Wood Wed May 07, 2014 2:40 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Andre,

I have books on Penjing from back in the 70's / 60's, this is nothing new. It is very beautiful, much harmony, but don't be taken in by controversy or that this is something new [ perhaps new to those who have no Chinese books ?????? .Note what Jun said.]

As you said, twenty years from now, something else will be the bees' knees.
Later.
Khaimraj

This is good to see none the less, thousands of years old or decades, it does not make a big difference considering that the bonsai culture of China was almost destroyed by "The Cultural Revolution" fifty years ago. It has take Chinese artists a number of years to sneak out of hiding and start promoting their work without fearing the wrath of their gonverment.

Vance Wood Wed May 07, 2014 2:45 pm

yogesh wrote:still cannot believe it....
only God can do this

You have to understand the difference between Japanese and Chines thinking. The Japanese honor the spiritual presence of individual elements and the Chines honor the spiritual presence of an entire landscapes. I remember in my research, running accros an account of a "miniature Landscape" that by out standards was not so small, that actually had miniature living animals in it. So one must assume that the Chinese associated these things with magical powers.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Tue May 13, 2014 7:03 pm

interesting discussion... i had a reply drafted, but decided to alter it and move it to the "lounge" section of the forum to get others thoughts without further distractions from this stunning piece of art.

thanks walter !!!
you are one of my favorite arbor artists
(along with graham potter)

kimo Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:22 am

Walter Pall wrote:This image of a penjing at the present WBFF convention in China impressed me deeply. Look at the first image and see a great landscape. How about having this as bonsai? Impossible? Look at the second one. This could be the future of bonsai when the Chinese will be getting serious.

wow! serious landscape.

Vance Wood Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:22 pm

This is fabulous. I remember reading stories about the beginnings of bonsai where some artist thousands of years ago designed a landscape for the emperor that had miniature living cows and rivers and everything you could imagine. I know a lot of this is myth but from a degree of truth myths are made.

Interesting and sad that scenes like this once common along the Yang Tse River are now quickly disappearing do to the Three Rivers Dam Project that is slowly making an inland lake almost the size of Lake Superior. It may not be too long before the only way we can see scenes like this is with these bonsai masterpieces.

Precarious Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:42 pm

Stunning! The interplay between rock, tree and water is symphonic!

kimo Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:24 pm

Precarious wrote:Stunning! The interplay between rock, tree and water is symphonic!

yes, very natural. "not touched" by man.

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