Chinese landscape

This image of a penjing at the present WBFF convention in China impressed me deeply. Look at the first image and see a great landscape. How about having this as bonsai? Impossible? Look at the second one. This could be the future of bonsai when the Chinese will be getting serious.

Hi Walter

Many thanks for sharing
It appears the chinese are serious...it is not the first unbelievable good penjin I saw...

Kind regards Yvonne

Wow, that is really believable as a real landscape. The best thing about it, besides the stunning bonsai, is the rocks. They fit the scale completely.

I just lost myself in it.... imagining a grotto in the corner at the bottom behind the bushes....cool and inviting... Its so easy with this. Isn't that the point of bonsai...to take one away from reality for a moment. This penjing can do that in an instant.

Love it, thank you Walter!

Love and light

I love this Penjing; thank you for sharing it. I am stunned just thinking of the work involved in creating, maintaining ... and lifting it  
I have always felt that Penjing was serious bonsai!

Thanks Walter, that is truly magnificent! Can you give us some idea as to the size and plant species? Is the hard scape real or artificial rock? Thanks again.

It’s amazing how each one is seeing the world from his own perspective  
Like Todd is saying : “Penjing was serious bonsai!”…defining this penjing creation relatively to bonsai, as I imagine a penjing artist will describe a bonsai creation…
IMO the image that Walter has shared with us, is a penjing of an unclear style. something between Landscape Penjing (shanshui penjing) and Water and Land Penjing (shuihan penjing).

is this the future of bonsai ? such an intriguing question  
we should ask ourselves what is bonsai ? what is the difference between Bonsai, Penjing, Saikei, Hòn Non Bộ, diorama and any other art form that creates a MiniScape.

IMO all of this arts are different ways to achieve the same - a wonderment MiniScape that amaze and communicate a message the artist have in mind.
each art was originated in a different country with different culture and was developed to focus on certain subjects and under certain rules because it was inspired from a certain country with a certain nature, tree species, rules,…
For example the focus of Bonsai in most cases is to communicate a message or tell a story using living trees, in most cases a single tree as seen from a close viewing distance.

So IMO it’s not about the future of bonsai, it’s more about the future of us as a miniscaping artists. And the development of us, learning all this amazing arts and utilizing them as we see fit to create such amazing creations...and more

Walter Pall wrote:..

Thanks for posting this, Walter. I saw it on facebook earlier and thought too it was exceptionally well done. Not only are proportions and common bonsai concepts applied ( trees, long side - short side, etc.), I also like the way how the valley is not coming at you but rather sideways. I see the straight path or "canyon" very often and it always looks manmade to me. The rocks and their arrangement are perfect.

The standard metal feet/ corner pieces to elevate any size tray are cool too. They add to the depth of the penjing in my view.Nice!

Best,
Dorothy

Dorothy - you're saying : "Not only are proportions and common bonsai concepts applied"
you are "complementing" a penjing miniscape that it meets bonsai standards
but it's penjing! it came long before bonsai...and it is no less amazing.

but I think that beyond admiring this amazing miniscape, it's interesting to discuss Walter question
"the future of bonsai ? "

here is what I wrote before...

theBalance wrote:It’s amazing how each one is seeing the world from his own perspective  
Like Todd is saying : “Penjing was serious bonsai!”…defining this penjing creation relatively to bonsai, as I imagine a penjing artist will describe a bonsai creation…
IMO the image that Walter has shared with us, is a penjing of an unclear style. something between Landscape Penjing (shanshui penjing) and Water and Land Penjing (shuihan penjing).

is this the future of bonsai ? such an intriguing question  
we should ask ourselves what is bonsai ? what is the difference between Bonsai, Penjing, Saikei, Hòn Non Bộ, diorama and any other art form that creates a MiniScape.

IMO all of this arts are different ways to achieve the same - a wonderment MiniScape that amaze and communicate a message the artist have in mind.
each art was originated in a different country with different culture and was developed to focus on certain subjects and under certain rules because it was inspired from a certain country with a certain nature, tree species, rules,…
For example the focus of Bonsai in most cases is to communicate a message or tell a story using living trees, in most cases a single tree as seen from a close viewing distance.

So IMO it’s not about the future of bonsai, it’s more about the future of us as a miniscaping artists. And the development of us, learning all this amazing arts and utilizing them as we see fit to create such amazing creations...and more

theBalance wrote:Dorothy - you're saying : "Not only are proportions and common bonsai concepts applied"
you are "complementing" a penjing miniscape that it meets bonsai standards
but it's penjing! it came long before bonsai...and it is no less amazing.
..

What I meant is the trees in the penjing look like real trees, proportions all met, realistic relation to each other, common bonsai concept applied. Also, we see a longer and shorter side of the allover creation, another concept in many bonsai.

I know penjing is older. Human perception is too and yet we are still fighting over "bonsai rules/ guidlines" that make a bonsai look like a tree and not like a bonsai. Why don't we just trust our feelings?   

Best,
Dorothy

dorothy7774 wrote: Human perception is too and yet we are still fighting over "bonsai rules/ guidlines" that make a bonsai look like a tree and not like a bonsai. Why don't we just trust our feelings?   

Best,
Dorothy

I have wondered the same thing for many years...I suspect it is because our society is more about "telling" people what is acceptable, and therefore, very few folks trust their own feeling/vision and most often need constant affirmation. We need more trust in our own abilities and creations!

As far as the future of bonsai...I don't think so...too many people are stuck in the single tree notion... I personally love landscape plantings and have created several, but I can also see the argument that they don't leave anything to the imagination.

John

Why don't we just trust our feelings?

HOO-ray!

John . . . To me, there's a lot left to my imagination in that landscape. How many lions, tigers, deer, etc. are lurking in there? Is it an island, or a part of a larger landscape? Where's the buried treasure hidden? And, alas, How long before Big Bad Timber Company gets a permit to cut it all down?

Bill Valavanis has photos and review from the exhibit on his blog, valavanisbonsaiblog.com

jgeanangel wrote:], but I can also see the argument that they don't leave anything to the imagination.

John

No way.... I just imagined a grotto...   a cool current.....  Jim see animals.....

I don't agree with you ad all.

Bonsai and Penjing and whatever else are different art forms.  The one will never take the place of the other.  It's impossible.  In actual fact, we should invent more not combine to have less.

Love and light[/quote]

"Future of Bonsai" maybe one of another path of future bonsai for the west... but in China and Other Asian countries. Penjing (landscape) is older than "bonsai" (mostly single tree) itself.

Single tree bonsai idea actually came from Landscape in trays. Tray recorded Landscapes were recorded as early as the Shang dynasty (c.1600-1046 BC) that's 3000 years ago. There is even a Legend way back the Qin dynasty (221-206BC) that the Shanglin Garden that covers 10,000 square miles contains penjings or "collected stones/rocks to create miniature mountains).
Chinese penjing as a form of art decline in the Tang dynasty and what we are seeing now is just part of the "recent renaissance" of the art that restarted during the 70's. The turning point of this renaissance bonsai event in China was in Penjing Art Exhibitions held in Beijing on Sept 11 to Oct 24, 1979.
From this event, the Chinese Association of Flower and Penjing was established on 1981 then was later re organized as the Flower penjing and stone Branch.
and in Other Asian Countries penjing ( Landscape)  was introduced by the Chinese together with the "regular bonsai."
...So IMHO, this art is not the future of bonsai for China and the east. but for the west, maybe it is. and mind you folks, It is harder to do than single tree bonsai.  


(Most of the info above came from several History and bonsai books. Incl penjing books)

Very nice Landscape Walter, Thank you for sharing!


regards,
jun

Andre Beaurain wrote:

Bonsai and Penjing and whatever else are different art forms.  The one will never take the place of the other.  It's impossible.  In actual fact, we should invent more not combine to have less.

you are most welcome to search the internet and compare MiniScapes created by diffrent arts - for example :"Water and Land Penjing", "Bonsai group planting", "Saikei", "Hòn Non Bộ",...

you will find that there is so much common things between them... 

all i'm saying is that if we will open our minds we can learn from each such "MiniScaping" art something, and use this synergy to create a much better creations  

Live long and prosper

p.s.
Jun - I agree with you so much ! thanks for the quality info.

This is a typical Chinese landscape scenic epitome scenery like this exist in many parts of China. For example  Huangshan, Taishan, Huashan, Guilin,  etc. ......

The beautiful landscape has often been painted in Chinese painting, if you have seen some Chinese landscape painting, You will not feel strange for such bonsai.

John I wasn't arguing about this, I fully agree with your above statement.  

I didn't agree with; 'Penjing not leaving anything for the imagination.'  Thats all

Love and light

Andre,

I have books on Penjing from back in the 70's / 60's, this is nothing new. It is very beautiful, much harmony, but don't be taken in by controversy or that this is something new [ perhaps new to those who have no Chinese books ?????? .Note what Jun said.]

As you said, twenty years from now, something else will be the bees' knees.
Later.
Khaimraj

Andre Beaurain wrote:John I wasn't arguing about this, I fully agree with your above statement.  

I didn't agree with; 'Penjing not leaving anything for the imagination.'  Thats all

Love and light

I didn't take it that way at all...

I did consider clarifying what I wrote... Compared to the unlimited potential to put a single tree in any landscape that the viewer can imagine...tray landscapes leave far less to the imagination.

Personally I never imagine animals or people in any composition...and instead I imagine trees/bonsai in natural landscapes. But, that is just me!
John

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Andre,

I have books on Penjing from back in the 70's / 60's, this is nothing new. It is very beautiful, much harmony, but don't be taken in by controversy or that this is something new [ perhaps new to those who have no Chinese books ?????? .Note what Jun said.]

As you said, twenty years from now, something else will be the bees' knees.
Later.
Khaimraj

Thank you Khaimraj. And John I got you. 

But I think we are missing each completely, I know that. I never said that Penjing is new. I suggested instead of using 'penjing' as the 'way forward'....o god, lets just leave it at that, I already had a class of lovely wine. And I'm gonna shut up now. hihihihihihiiii

Love and light to you all.
Dre

Andre'.

I take the glass of wine, and the comments that preced and follow, as me stressing you out.
I will refrain in future.
Most humble apologies.
Khaimraj

Dear Khaimraj

Please don't, just be yourself.  And you don't have that much power to stress me out.  hihihihihihihihi

Over population stresses me out,  and as I said before, Bad taste stresses me out.     But individuals....O No, life is to short.

Love and light

Lets get back to the fabulous....emmmmmmmm do I dare say, Penjing?   

jgeanangel wrote:

Compared to the unlimited potential to put a single tree in any landscape that the viewer can imagine...tray landscapes leave far less to the imagination.


John

that is very interesting ! you are referring to the bonsai tree as a visual cue that trigger the viewer imagination. and you're basically saying that the less we present we leave more to the viewer imagination. thanks for this I never saw it in this manner  

to me bonsai/penjing/... are forms of art that allows the artist to convey a message, and the more the message is clear better are the chances that we will succeed in conveying the message ( and the message should be related to human concepts/qualities/.. - like : surviving something, old vs young, longveity vs mortality, huge vs small - so the human viewer will connect )  

but you are suggesting that we should NOT try to send a specific message, but rather let the viewer interpret what ever he wants/Imagine

I need to think about this other approach

Thankyou kindly for posting Walter

What a beautiful landscape, so much detail, I could quite easily look at that for hours on end

What do you think with the suggestions I wrote in photo
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