American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum

richard - i, for one, feel that your efforts were well worth it and that your examples really do bring out the distinctive features that you were looking to exemplify...

michael - re: your critique of the naturalistic tree, i agree that there may be a couple branches that do not agree with me from a design perspective, but would changing them or removing them make it more naturalistic ? perhaps so, but i think perhaps not. (like you said, these are only our opinions...)

by the by - assumptions are being made that all the trees walter posted were his own...


as an aside, arthur asked that i post some more pictures from the expo and i will do so soon
(american bonsai at the north carolina arboretum being the initial thrust of this thread)
but at this time i did not want to step on the discussion at hand....... yet.  

Mike & Kevin

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Mike, I will take a little time to think about what you've said before responding because although I don't fully agree with all of it you do raise some good questions. Questions that deserve a considered answer.

I will offer one comment now though. I believe that the image Walter posted which I chose to use as a representation of Modern Bonsai style is a Kimura tree (Dancing Dragon or something it's called isn't it?). Masahiko Kimura is I believe Japanese which if it proved nothing else proves at least that it is a misconception to assume that all Japanese bonsai artists produce or necessarily want to produce classical bonsai.

To quote Kimura from the preface of Junsun Yamamoto's book (the Beauty of Bonsai),

"My aspiration is to produce a totally new kind of bonsai, taking inspiration from the natural world to create works of art with a different look, a different ambience to classical, conventional bonsai."

I think many would agree that he has achieved this. I wonder how this impacts of what we consider to be classical Japanese bonsai?

Regards

Richard

Richard S wrote:
I think many would agree that he has achieved this. I wonder how this impacts of what we consider to be classical Japanese bonsai?

Richaerd,

in Europe he has smashed Classical Bonsai style. It is considered old fashioned by most artists today. All young guys do mdoern bonsai only. In America you are just about experiencing the same thing in my opinion. The Artisan Cup will cause the pardaigm shift.

I agree. Though I personally don't care much for images like the Kirby and Pine tree planting I do favor trees that not only look natural but have a style and grace that makes me go wow! I look at a lot of trees in the wild and in their own ways they are beautiful but only now and then and few in numbers do I see a tree with the wow factor. For my preferences a bonsai must have just the right amount of grooming without looking like something from some book.

Vance Wood wrote:For my preferences a bonsai must have just the right amount of grooming without looking like something from some book.  

and from what i have seen, you do it very well, vance.

now, per arthur's request, and if you all will forgive me, i will interrupt this irregularly scheduled program with some more pictures from the 20th anniversary of the carolina bonsai expo !

today it will be just pictures of the exhibit... including, yes, full shots of trees
in the days to come i will also be posting some pictures from the various demos that took place...
(anyone know of a bulk uploader for the image hosting service used for this forum ?)

























most of the group displays were hard to capture in their entirety due to foot traffic, but i did wait patiently for this one as i thought it really captured the appalachian aesthetic :




and more pictures of the road trip adventure can be found on my personal blog: http://beercitysnake.blogspot.com/
along with a few more from the expo on the arbor arts collective blog: http://arborartscollective.blogspot.com/

more to follow...

Dear Arthur,

Arthur Joura wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to post your most recent reply, which has generated at least some commentary. As I write this, you are in Portland, OR being one of the judges at the Artisan's Cup event, and I wonder how that is going. I look forward to hearing your impressions of the show and all that goes with it.[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

It's now about four weeks ago and the impressions have settled. I said this immediately right there and still think so: this event was a major milestone in American bonsai history in my opinion. America has arrived at the Modern Bonsai Style. The overwhelming majority of the first twenty or so trees were in that style and certainly the ones upfront. Although from the choice of judges it was not clearly to be expected the taste has changed as far as I can see. Very impressive massive trees with lots of deadwood , very individualistic, very loud are now in. Quiet is nice to have in between bout quiet cannot really win against loud noways. This is a paradigm shift. Bonsai has arrived as an art form as the exhibit took place in the Portland Art Museum and the whole setup was very unique and very dramatic to show trees artistically. Very successful though, regardless  of what many on the internet think because the pictures were so lousy. This was not for picture taking it was for being deeply impressed.
This paradigm shift will not be welcomed by many. It does not value what many believe of believed to be the essence of bonsai, the quietness, Zen feeling, working on a piece from the start over decades and loving it. All this is more for accent now than it is the main show. Broadleaved trees have very little chance now may they be as good as they can possibly be. I think it is essential to give the quiet trees and the broadleaved trees a podium. Extra awards would be a solution rather than a  extra show devoted to them.
For about twenty years I was thinking that when comparing the state of bonsai art in Europe and in the USA Europe had a strong lead. This is not so anymore. They are now at par is my observation. While Europe is still growing in quality steadily America is doing this in a steeper curve since a couple of years. So I foresee the USA will be leading against Europe and, since material is crucial and America has the best material, it will lead the world in the not so distant future.
Coming back to American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum it is clear that the 'new' style of the Artisan Cup is definitely not the style at the arboretum. Such is life and I can tell you a lot about this. It is well known that I am also not following the mainstream style in general. This I do as you do out of conviction and with success. But we will not win an award against modern bonsai. So what! But , interesting to note, I had the honor of being one of the judges in Portland. And it is partially through my judgment that the modern trees won.
Well, all this is just my personal opinion and one should take it for that and to more.

Arthur Joura wrote:
I have asked you about different styles in bonsai, with a particular interest in the Naturalistic style. You have provided a good overview, and even though you are giving it only a simplified, stripped down, cursory treatment I think you are already over the heads of a good many people. I have spent a lot of time thinking over this business of bonsai styles and find it is not so easy a topic to dissect, but for myself I have decided this:

The Classical Style, as viewed from the standard Western perspective, refers to bonsai made in Japan and reflecting the prevailing Japanese aesthetic, from a period dating back at least 100 years and perhaps more, but reaching its zenith in the late-middle of the 20th century. It is the stuff one would find in the Nippon Bonsai Association publication "Classic Bonsai of Japan", or at the major shows in Japan prior to advent of Mr. Kimura and those who followed in his wake. For many practitioners it represents the Holy Grail of bonsai perfection.

The Neo-classical Style is all the bonsai made in imitation of the true Classical bonsai. By following a prescribed methodology people attempt to emulate the Classical look, and some get very close to it while others produce results that border on grotesque parody. The overwhelming majority of bonsai I see in this country, and those from bonsai shows in many Western countries, as we often see represented by photos posted on this forum, fall into the Neo-classical or Western Classical style.

The Modern Style appears to have sprung largely from the loins of Mr. Kimura, and his apprentices cum disciples have carried it throughout the world. It is typified by power, precision, overt technical prowess and as much impressive deadwood as possible. It is the stuff that generates the most excitement in bonsai circles these days, the stuff that bonsai rock star dreams are made of.

The Naturalistic Style reverts back to the example of trees in nature as the prime source for inspiration. For most people in the West the reference for this style is typically one of the naturalistic schools of Penjing from China, although there is a fair amount of unrecognized naturalism in the handling of deciduous material in Japanese bonsai. Although true naturalistic bonsai exist in the US they are comparatively rare and often not appreciated.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

So far I agree to your assessment of bonsai styles.

Arthur Joura wrote:
It is not possible for me or any of the other people on this forum to produce actual Classical bonsai. [url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

May I add that it also not possible for any other folks including Japanese. The time of classical bonsai is over. Whatever one does now is a retro. Some retros can come very close to the original style, but they are still a retro.

Arthur Joura wrote:The best those inclined toward Classical bonsai can hope to do is Neo-classical bonsai.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

Correct, you can also call it a retro.

Arthur Joura wrote:Neo-classical bonsai has no roots in Western culture, therefore pursuing it entails trying to assimilate a foreign culture, or at least cultivate some deep understanding of it.

[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

True, but then bonsai in general has no roots in our culture one could say. But still many succeed to have a deep understanding and many create great masterpieces without these roots. Does one have to be born in Salzburg, Austria to do classical music or understand it very well?

Arthur Joura wrote:A comparatively minuscule number of Western people have the desire to completely assimilate a foreign culture, which is very difficult if not impossible to do.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

Agreed. And most fail. While a Japanese would never openly admit it I happen to know that they make jokes about this. For me bonsai is not a Japanese or Asian art form anymore. It has become universal. And there is absolutely no need to creep into another culture to do it well.

Arthur Joura wrote:A larger but still comparatively minuscule number of Western people have the desire to cultivate a deep understanding of a foreign culture, but they often do a poor job of it and end up being awkward. [url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

Sorry to say – yes. And even if they did a great job what difference would it make.

Arthur Joura wrote:Modern bonsai requires old plant material with impressive trunks, typically collected, which is not available to many people due to the rigors of collecting it or the cost of buying it.[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

Mostly true.

Arthur Joura wrote:Modern bonsai also requires a degree of technical skill most bonsai hobbyists do not possess.[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

Mostly true.

Dear Arthur,

Arthur Joura wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to post your most recent reply, which has generated at least some commentary. As I write this, you are in Portland, OR being one of the judges at the Artisan's Cup event, and I wonder how that is going. I look forward to hearing your impressions of the show and all that goes with it.[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

It's now about four weeks ago and the impressions have settled. I said this immediately right there and still think so: this event was a major milestone in American bonsai history in my opinion. America has arrived at the Modern Bonsai Style. The overwhelming majority of the first twenty or so trees were in that style and certainly the ones upfront. Although from the choice of judges it was not clearly to be expected the taste has changed as far as I can see. Very impressive massive trees with lots of deadwood , very individualistic, very loud are now in. Quiet is nice to have in between bout quiet cannot really win against loud noways. This is a paradigm shift. Bonsai has arrived as an art form as the exhibit took place in the Portland Art Museum and the whole setup was very unique and very dramatic to show trees artistically. Very successful though, regardless  of what many on the internet think because the pictures were so lousy. This was not for picture taking it was for being deeply impressed.
This paradigm shift will not be welcomed by many. It does not value what many believe of believed to be the essence of bonsai, the quietness, Zen feeling, working on a piece from the start over decades and loving it. All this is more for accent now than it is the main show. Broadleaved trees have very little chance now may they be as good as they can possibly be. I think it is essential to give the quiet trees and the broadleaved trees a podium. Extra awards would be a solution rather than a  extra show devoted to them.
For about twenty years I was thinking that when comparing the state of bonsai art in Europe and in the USA Europe had a strong lead. This is not so anymore. They are now at par is my observation. While Europe is still growing in quality steadily America is doing this in a steeper curve since a couple of years. So I foresee the USA will be leading against Europe and, since material is crucial and America has the best material, it will lead the world in the not so distant future.
Coming back to American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum it is clear that the 'new' style of the Artisan Cup is definitely not the style at the arboretum. Such is life and I can tell you a lot about this. It is well known that I am also not following the mainstream style in general. This I do as you do out of conviction and with success. But we will not win an award against modern bonsai. So what! But , interesting to note, I had the honor of being one of the judges in Portland. And it is partially through my judgment that the modern trees won.
Well, all this is just my personal opinion and one should take it for that and to more.

Arthur Joura wrote:
I have asked you about different styles in bonsai, with a particular interest in the Naturalistic style. You have provided a good overview, and even though you are giving it only a simplified, stripped down, cursory treatment I think you are already over the heads of a good many people. I have spent a lot of time thinking over this business of bonsai styles and find it is not so easy a topic to dissect, but for myself I have decided this:

The Classical Style, as viewed from the standard Western perspective, refers to bonsai made in Japan and reflecting the prevailing Japanese aesthetic, from a period dating back at least 100 years and perhaps more, but reaching its zenith in the late-middle of the 20th century. It is the stuff one would find in the Nippon Bonsai Association publication "Classic Bonsai of Japan", or at the major shows in Japan prior to advent of Mr. Kimura and those who followed in his wake. For many practitioners it represents the Holy Grail of bonsai perfection.

The Neo-classical Style is all the bonsai made in imitation of the true Classical bonsai. By following a prescribed methodology people attempt to emulate the Classical look, and some get very close to it while others produce results that border on grotesque parody. The overwhelming majority of bonsai I see in this country, and those from bonsai shows in many Western countries, as we often see represented by photos posted on this forum, fall into the Neo-classical or Western Classical style.

The Modern Style appears to have sprung largely from the loins of Mr. Kimura, and his apprentices cum disciples have carried it throughout the world. It is typified by power, precision, overt technical prowess and as much impressive deadwood as possible. It is the stuff that generates the most excitement in bonsai circles these days, the stuff that bonsai rock star dreams are made of.

The Naturalistic Style reverts back to the example of trees in nature as the prime source for inspiration. For most people in the West the reference for this style is typically one of the naturalistic schools of Penjing from China, although there is a fair amount of unrecognized naturalism in the handling of deciduous material in Japanese bonsai. Although true naturalistic bonsai exist in the US they are comparatively rare and often not appreciated.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

So far I agree to your assessment of bonsai styles.

Arthur Joura wrote:
It is not possible for me or any of the other people on this forum to produce actual Classical bonsai. [url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

May I add that it also not possible for any other folks including Japanese. The time of classical bonsai is over. Whatever one does now is a retro. Some retros can come very close to the original style, but they are still a retro.

Arthur Joura wrote:The best those inclined toward Classical bonsai can hope to do is Neo-classical bonsai.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

Correct, you can also call it a retro.

Arthur Joura wrote:Neo-classical bonsai has no roots in Western culture, therefore pursuing it entails trying to assimilate a foreign culture, or at least cultivate some deep understanding of it.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

[/quote]

True, but then bonsai in general has no roots in our culture one could say. But still many succeed to have a deep understanding and many create great masterpieces without these roots. Does one have to be born in Salzburg, Austria to do classical music or understand it very well?

Arthur Joura wrote:A comparatively minuscule number of Western people have the desire to completely assimilate a foreign culture, which is very difficult if not impossible to do.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

[/quote]

Agreed. And most fail. While a Japanese would never openly admit it I happen to know that they make jokes about this. For me bonsai is not a Japanese or Asian art form anymore. It has become universal. And there is absolutely no need to creep into another culture to do it well.

Arthur Joura wrote:A larger but still comparatively minuscule number of Western people have the desire to cultivate a deep understanding of a foreign culture, but they often do a poor job of it and end up being awkward. [url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

[/quote]

Sorry to say – yes. And even if they did a great job what difference would it make.

Arthur Joura wrote:Modern bonsai requires old plant material with impressive trunks, typically collected, which is not available to many people due to the rigors of collecting it or the cost of buying it.[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

[/quote]

Mostly true.

Arthur Joura wrote:Modern bonsai also requires a degree of technical skill most bonsai hobbyists do not possess.[url=https://servimg.com/view/18135461/858]

[/quote]

Mostly true.

[/quote][/quote]
[/quote][/quote]

Dear Arthur,

Arthur Joura wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to post your most recent reply, which has generated at least some commentary. As I write this, you are in Portland, OR being one of the judges at the Artisan's Cup event, and I wonder how
hat is going. I look forward to hearing your impressions of the show and all that goes with it.

It's now about four weeks ago and the impressions have settled. I said this immediately right there and still think so: this event was a major milestone in American bonsai history in my opinion. America has arrived at the Modern Bonsai Style. The overwhelming majority of the first twenty or so trees were in that style and certainly the ones upfront. Although from the choice of judges it was not clearly to be expected the taste has changed as far as I can see. Very impressive massive trees with lots of deadwood , very individualistic, very loud are now in. Quiet is nice to have in between bout quiet cannot really win against loud noways. This is a paradigm shift. Bonsai has arrived as an art form as the exhibit took place in the Portland Art Museum and the whole setup was very unique and very dramatic to show trees artistically. Very successful though, regardless  of what many on the internet think because the pictures were so lousy. This was not for picture taking it was for being deeply impressed.
This paradigm shift will not be welcomed by many. It does not value what many believe of believed to be the essence of bonsai, the quietness, Zen feeling, working on a piece from the start over decades and loving it. All this is more for accent now than it is the main show. Broadleaved trees have very little chance now may they be as good as they can possibly be. I think it is essential to give the quiet trees and the broadleaved trees a podium. Extra awards would be a solution rather than a  extra show devoted to them.
For about twenty years I was thinking that when comparing the state of bonsai art in Europe and in the USA Europe had a strong lead. This is not so anymore. They are now at par is my observation. While Europe is still growing in quality steadily America is doing this in a steeper curve since a couple of years. So I foresee the USA will be leading against Europe and, since material is crucial and America has the best material, it will lead the world in the not so distant future.
Coming back to American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum it is clear that the 'new' style of the Artisan Cup is definitely not the style at the arboretum. Such is life and I can tell you a lot about this. It is well known that I am also not following the mainstream style in general. This I do as you do out of conviction and with success. But we will not win an award against modern bonsai. So what! But , interesting to note, I had the honor of being one of the judges in Portland. And it is partially through my judgment that the modern trees won.
Well, all this is just my personal opinion and one should take it for that and to more.

Arthur Joura wrote:
I have asked you about different styles in bonsai, with a particular interest in the Naturalistic style. You have provided a good overview, and even though you are giving it only a simplified, stripped down, cursory treatment I think you are already over the heads of a good many people. I have spent a lot of time thinking over this business of bonsai styles and find it is not so easy a topic to dissect, but for myself I have decided this:

The Classical Style, as viewed from the standard Western perspective, refers to bonsai made in Japan and reflecting the prevailing Japanese aesthetic, from a period dating back at least 100 years and perhaps more, but reaching its zenith in the late-middle of the 20th century. It is the stuff one would find in the Nippon Bonsai Association publication "Classic Bonsai of Japan", or at the major shows in Japan prior to advent of Mr. Kimura and those who followed in his wake. For many practitioners it represents the Holy Grail of bonsai perfection.

The Neo-classical Style is all the bonsai made in imitation of the true Classical bonsai. By following a prescribed methodology people attempt to emulate the Classical look, and some get very close to it while others produce results that border on grotesque parody. The overwhelming majority of bonsai I see in this country, and those from bonsai shows in many Western countries, as we often see represented by photos posted on this forum, fall into the Neo-classical or Western Classical style.

The Modern Style appears to have sprung largely from the loins of Mr. Kimura, and his apprentices cum disciples have carried it throughout the world. It is typified by power, precision, overt technical prowess and as much impressive deadwood as possible. It is the stuff that generates the most excitement in bonsai circles these days, the stuff that bonsai rock star dreams are made of.

The Naturalistic Style reverts back to the example of trees in nature as the prime source for inspiration. For most people in the West the reference for this style is typically one of the naturalistic schools of Penjing from China, although there is a fair amount of unrecognized naturalism in the handling of deciduous material in Japanese bonsai. Although true naturalistic bonsai exist in the US they are comparatively rare and often not appreciated.

So far I agree to your assessment of bonsai styles.

Arthur Joura wrote:
It is not possible for me or any of the other people on this forum to produce actual Classical bonsai.

May I add that it also not possible for any other folks including Japanese. The time of classical bonsai is over. Whatever one does now is a retro. Some retros can come very close to the original style, but they are still a retro.

Arthur Joura wrote:The best those inclined toward Classical bonsai can hope to do is Neo-classical bonsai.

[/quote]

Correct, you can also call it a retro.

Arthur Joura wrote:Neo-classical bonsai has no roots in Western culture, therefore pursuing it entails trying to assimilate a foreign culture, or at least cultivate some deep understanding of it.

[/quote]

True, but then bonsai in general has no roots in our culture one could say. But still many succeed to have a deep understanding and many create great masterpieces without these roots. Does one have to be born in Salzburg, Austria to do classical music or understand it very well?

Arthur Joura wrote:A comparatively minuscule number of Western people have the desire to completely assimilate a foreign culture, which is very difficult if not impossible to do.

[/quote]

Agreed. And most fail. While a Japanese would never openly admit it I happen to know that they make jokes about this. For me bonsai is not a Japanese or Asian art form anymore. It has become universal. And there is absolutely no need to creep into another culture to do it well.

Arthur Joura wrote:A larger but still comparatively minuscule number of Western people have the desire to cultivate a deep understanding of a foreign culture, but they often do a poor job of it and end up being awkward.

[/quote]
Sorry to say – yes. And even if they did a great job what difference would it make.

Arthur Joura wrote:Modern bonsai requires old plant material with impressive trunks, typically collected, which is not available to many people due to the rigors of collecting it or the cost of buying it.

Mostly true.

Arthur Joura wrote:Modern bonsai also requires a degree of technical skill most bonsai hobbyists do not possess.

Mostly true.[/quote]

Well! Anyone who wishes to analyze and cross check the theories posted from page 40 to now can only come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as "classical'' or ''neo classical'' (or retro now?) in bonsai. (a non static art form) Or am I the only one who sees this as pure nonsense. Plainly, any form of bonsai design can and has been practiced by anyone anytime. To apply artificial separation to it is absurd. Confusion will reign supreme as has been proved in this thread.
http://www.kingsgalleries.com/classic-art/

MichaelS wrote:Personally, I don't really feel the need to classify bonsai.

well, it seems like you do spend a considerable amount of time pondering something you find no need for...
and me saying that is exactly and only that... "just saying"  




more expo pics to follow on monday.

I'd like to read, and see more about "American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum".

Beer City Snake wrote:
more expo pics to follow on monday.

Why don't you start another thread then? There are already dozens of pages of blah blah that I find totally vain. I don't care a fig what your religion is, or who's got the biggest one (I mean the best argument, oeuf corse )

Sorry to be so blunt, but even if Arthur wanted this thread to go on, I think he was wrong: this thread was not meant for the battles of egos initially. I'm an old timer, I much prefer the "Battle of the Bands" (the Turtles, you know, "So happy togetheeeeer...)

Thanks Arthur, Walter and other for this discussion. (Though I will be glad to return to Arthur's discussions.)

I am continually confused with this discussion of "styles". When someone uses the word bonsai style I immediately think of Hokidachi , Chokkan, Shakan etc. This current discussion is not of the structure of individual trees but of a grouping of trees with similar characteristics. This is similar to the Chinese penjing schools.

SO FOLKS might I humbly suggest that in this current discussion that we not use the term styles, but instead use schools to depict the various groupings. Such as the Neo Classical School, or Classical Japanese School or the American Naturalistic School, or .............

What say you?

DougB wrote:
What say you?

Me says :

Yohaku no bi
(the beauty of empty space)

AlainK wrote:I'd like to read, and see more about "American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum".

Beer City Snake wrote:
more expo pics to follow on monday.

Why don't you start another thread then?  

alain - i want to believe that i am misreading that or that something is lost in the transalation...

are you saying i should start another thread to show pictures from the arboretum's expo ???

At this point I suspect we're all a bit confused as to where this topic/thread is leading us.  I think Doug B is at least close to the mark when he suggests "schools" rather than "styles" as what we're talking about here.  As it was. we were comparing Golden Delicious vs. Honey Crisp apples (and everyone knows Honey Crisps will win THAT battle). 

It is ARTHUR's thread, however, and he seemed to want it to go on in this direction.  I suspect, however, that aside from subbing "school" for "style" (where appropriate, wherever that is) we may have beaten this into the ground, then stomped all over it to boot. 

Maybe, rather than blithering repetitively on as we have been doing lately, we let Arthur, once he has fully recuperated from #20, step in to guide us further along this path -- or elsewhere. 

Hopefully . . .

beer city snake wrote:

are you saying i should start another thread to show pictures from the arboretum's expo ???

Oops, sorry. I wasn't following (yawn...), I couldn't imagine it was a post about the arboretum, and I had missed this post : https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t12772p645-american-bonsai-at-the-nc-arboretum#173952 I don't have time to read the comments though, but there are some trees that I find remarkable, others inspiring, and some that are quite nice - and what "school" they belong to is none of my concerns.

So, please, do: I really enjoyed the first posts in this thread, the ones about the arboretum.

Alain

With respect, if you find this discussion on bonsai styles so boring (yawn, yawn) then why not simply skip by it and move on to one of the other many threads running on this forum?

Personally I find it fascinating and informative.

As someone who has no specific bonsai or even general art education this (and other similar threads) have prompted me to think about bonsai in a whole new way. This has greatly impacted on the way I now look at trees (the ones that grow in the countryside as well as the ones in pots) and in time I have no doubt that it will also impact on the way try to style my trees.

Regards

Richard

Richard S wrote:Alain

With respect, if you find this discussion on bonsai styles so boring (yawn, yawn) then why not simply skip by it and move on to one of the other many threads running on this forum?

 

Because I was following a discussion about "American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum", not a byzantine discussion about the sex of angels!

As I wrote before, this thread was not started for that purpose, and I regret that Arthur gave in: this part of the discussion (that I personally find very vain) should find its place in the section https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/f11-bonsai-contemplations :

Bonsai Contemplations
This forum is for threads concerning your thoughts and deliberations about the art/craft/hobby of Bonsai in general as opposed to individual trees. It includes in particular the more philosophical discussions on the artistic side of bonsai such as Bonsai: Art or Horticulture? What actually is American Bonsai? etc. This forum could also include pictures or videos of trees that have inspired you (remember the AUP though), items about your benches/winter storage areas, travelogues, the weather, links to other bonsai sites you think people might enjoy and so on. Essentially if it doesn't fit anywhere else, then put it here. This section now also includes show reports.

I could express my "philosophy" in a such a section (I really would!), but in this thread, I'm expecting news, pictures and comments from Arthur about "American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum", right?

[quote]

beer city snake wrote:

MichaelS wrote:Personally, I don't really feel the need to classify bonsai.

well, it seems like you do spend a considerable amount of time pondering something you find no need for...
and me saying that is exactly and only that... "just saying"  

Kev, While I don't feel the need to classify bonsai into classifications, Classically, I classify myself as one who has a classic need to classify those who classify.

MichaelS wrote:

beer city snake wrote:

MichaelS wrote:Personally, I don't really feel the need to classify bonsai.

well, it seems like you do spend a considerable amount of time pondering something you find no need for...
and me saying that is exactly and only that... "just saying"  

Kev, While I don't feel the need to classify bonsai into classifications, Classically, I classify myself as one who has a classic need to classify those who classify.

aahhhh... now i see !!! (said the blind man to his deaf wife )

and thanks for not taking umbrage at my observation

THE ARTHUR, JOHN & KEN SHOW AT THE EXPO

arthur, john & ken did a demo of a forest replanting comprised of water elms and bald cypress
they reduced the number of water elms and swapped out the bald cypresseseses for one larger one

the material











the show


























the results














i wanted a shot of the whole thing against a natural backdrop but had to settle with the shadowed silhouette and crossed window frames



it was evident that everyone in attendance, viewers and presenters alike had a great time with this one...
very informative and certainly not without humor.

arthur, john or ken... feel free to add additional commentary if you wish

tomorrow, a few from the walter pall show and then thats it...

I really wasn't quite sure where they were going with that material to start with but it turned out very nice indeed.

Excellent landscape planting with a diversity of material that isn't often seen. I like it, thanks for sharing the images.

Regards

Richard

Thanks Kevin.... That was probably your first experience with speed bonsai:) I noticed you left out the part when we bombarded the heckler in the audience(you) with muck!

In all seriousness we all know that long demos are the single most effective cure for insomnia known to man!! Recognizing this, we have worked relatively hard to make what we do once a year enjoyable and hopefully a learning experience. Ken and I give Arthur a really hard time about only giving us 1 hr to complete a demo but it forces us to plan, prepare all materials ahead of time, focus on the essentials, and work fast. We have probably done at least 10 demos together and they always seem to be very well received. They have certainly been distilled to the bare essentials by this time:)

John

Lovely demo... Thanks Arthur, John & Ken. Nice photo essay, Kevin.

thanks john, richard and chris (chris - nice clutterless pic of the finished 'scape !)

jgeanangel wrote:I noticed you left out the part when we bombarded the heckler in the audience(you) with muck!

cant take a picture thru a lens covered in glop !!!

at any rate, more hecklers would certainly make for more interesting demos and the snooze factor would probably be reduced to zero !



(to all - we jest - there was no actual heckling going on )