Indoor Bonsai under LED lights.

Captain's Log, Stardate Apr 3, a week after installation.  What can I say, I want more LEDs .  I guess I'll just keep my CFLs as backups.

The plants under the new LED did not seem to go through any adjustment period, they just grew as usual, and faster.  So many new shoots/growth from all plants under them (except the pine of course), even those in the farthest perimeters of the light.

I had pruned this Premna before the LED installation, and here it is today, lots of new shoots to prune. I'll just let them go wild for now, and let them thicken up ...

Brett, that's some serious growth in a week!

I will never go back to traditional lights for my trees, from what i can remember i did not see this good growth even under MH lights and absolutely not under CFL's, and both those where consuming way more electricity.

This was one of my Ficus.M a month ago after partial defoliation.

This the same tree today, i was forced to cut it back a week ago so it would not grow in to the lights.


I cant wait to get my real LED setups going, should have been done months ago but its nearly done now, and it is gonna be gorgeous!

Some updates, testing LED's in smaller areas to see how much growth can be achieved using as little power as possible. For this test 4 HOMEbox Q30 growtents are being used, SANlight M30's in 3 of the tents and one older version M30 in the forth. These growtents have a highly reflective inner surface, so light should bounce around in there and enhance growth a lot.
http://www.homebox.net//en/product/evolution/q-30#woa-view-product-selector

Some photos, notice the difference spectrum of the older version M30, the tents are completely lightproof when closed.






To be more "scientific" i will soon try 4 different 30Watt light setups on similar plant material in all 4 growtents to compare growth.
Cfl 2700k 30Watt
Cfl 6400K 30Watt
Cfl 2700K&6400K 15Watt+15Watt
M30 LED 30Watt

Plants in the plastic greenhouse under 3 M30's are growing like crazy!


Testing with the Apachetech LED's will start as soon as i have a setup able to handle the weight (7 kilos each), had to scratch the IKEA cabinet idea since it ended up taking to long to get finished and i am quite busy these days.

Hope to have the Apache lights up and running for next update.

So happy to have found this thread!! We had LEDs on our saltwater aquarium to grow corals very successfully, the lighting set-up was also from Austria, "Vertex".

I am now looking into using LEDs grow lights for Bonsai. Thanks so much for the links!!     LOVE the growth both you and Brett are achieving.

I'm now looking into some LEDs for my trees. There's just so much conflicting information out there, it's difficult to know what's what.

Pippi wrote:So happy to have found this thread!! We had LEDs on our saltwater aquarium to grow corals very successfully, the lighting set-up was also from Austria, "Vertex".

I am now looking into using LEDs grow lights for Bonsai. Thanks so much for the links!!     LOVE the growth both you and Brett are achieving.

Well, nothing beats real sunlight, but LEDs are a great alternative so far. After measurements using my meter outside, my 400w LED light is more like half the power of the morning sun, overall around the growing area. It is full power and even more if I put the meter right under the light, but that would mean only 1 plant, which is not practical. Anyway, all doing well, the plants get 12 hours of light so I guess that compensates. The bonsais are all healthy and growing fast. Will be adding another 400w or 600w soon to get a bigger growing area.

Added some wonderful Phalaenopsis orchids mounted and hanging around and above the bonsais too to make use of the excess light, and all doing well. Unfortunately, the orchid bug is really strong, with so many great species and hybrids, so the numerous ones that are coming in soon will have to be hung out arrayed in a wall in the balcony in morning sunlight (they have the advantage of not needing pots).

Learned from experience, at least in my setup, that fertilization of indoor plants under lights have to be weak, it's not the same as those outside. Adapting the orchid growers' practice of "weakly weekly" is a good one.

Brett, I'm curious why, in a country with so much humidity and sunshine, would you grow plants under lights, indoors? Here in Canada, our summers are relatively short and tropical species would not survive our winters.   

Pippi wrote:Brett, I'm curious why, in a country with so much humidity and sunshine, would you grow plants under lights, indoors? Here in Canada, our summers are relatively short and tropical species would not survive our winters.   

I am in Singapore, where, like Japan or even Hongkong, land is scarce and expensive.  Most of us live in high-rise apartments or condominiums.  If I were in Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, etc. it will be different, lots of land and space.

I was just speaking with an orchid hobbyist who I bought some great orchids from yesterday. He started indoors and in his balcony too, but his collection rose to thousands of orchids that he eventually had to go rent some farm plot with another hobbyist to accommodate the plants, that's about USD 300 per month rent.  They rent it from another farm, and it's lower-priced as the farm is really "far".

I haven't got to that stage yet .  My balcony is too small, with about 5 bonsais only, and more are indoors, mostly shohin.  It's not too bad, I don't need many, just a few to keep me occupied and to look at.

Indoor growing here is different as there is natural humidity, even when the airconditioner is turned on for the brief time we are in the room where the plants are.  I still have a humidifier on just in case during aircon time. Anyway, a humidifier is good in an airconditioned room as it's good for the skin and nose not to get dried out.

Pippi wrote:So happy to have found this thread!! We had LEDs on our saltwater aquarium to grow corals very successfully, the lighting set-up was also from Austria, "Vertex".

I am now looking into using LEDs grow lights for Bonsai. Thanks so much for the links!!     LOVE the growth both you and Brett are achieving.

That Vertex fixture looks really high quality!
I am very happy with the quality and performance with the SANlight LEDs, good things coming out from Austria.   

Ryan wrote:I'm now looking into some LEDs for my trees. There's just so much conflicting information out there, it's difficult to know what's what.

Ryan, i used to feel the same since its a LED jungle out there, from own experience here are a few things i look for to evaluate if a company's LEDs may be good or not.

If the company share LED brands, Nanometers and BINs then its easy to look up the performance and efficiency, CREE, Philips, OSRAM, Bridgelux and Nichia are the best LED brands i can think of.

The difference between a low and high quality LED chip can easily be the double!
So a light using quality LEDs of the best BINs drawing 100Watts will outperform a LED light drawing the double and more if its using inferior LED chips.
Quality LED drivers are also a must for a efficient light that will last, Mean well and RECOM are good brands (there are more).
 
Another thing to look for is good heat management, large heatsinks means better performance and longer lifespan for the LEDs.
Long warranty (company showing confident in there product) say a lot since LEDs has a lifespan of ~50.000h and often much more.
If a company shows Spectrum chart and PAR readings then its a BIG +!

Many good reviews are always a good sign to.

I personally ignore ALL re branded Chinese panels, i am sure there are those that are good and even very good, but finding one in the jungle of re brands is a huge gamble IMO.
So i personally stick with EU and US made lights from company's that can supply me with all the info i may possible ask for.

When looking for the right light/lights for ones setup, design, size, spectrum, lenses, power draw and much more are also important to consider before pulling the trigger.

One must do a lot of homework when it comes to buying the right LEDs for the right applications, IMO if you do take your time to get it right, then LEDs are a real dream come true, also very kind on the electric bill.  

brett2013 wrote:
Well, nothing beats real sunlight, but LEDs are a great alternative so far. After measurements using my meter outside, my 400w LED light is more like half the power of the morning sun, overall around the growing area.  It is full power and even more if I put the meter right under the light, but that would mean only 1 plant, which is not practical.  Anyway, all doing well, the plants get 12 hours of light so I guess that compensates.  The bonsais are all healthy and growing fast.  Will be adding another 400w or 600w soon to get a bigger growing area.

Added some wonderful Phalaenopsis orchids mounted and hanging around and above the bonsais too to make use of the excess light, and all doing well.  Unfortunately, the orchid bug is really strong, with so many great species and hybrids, so the numerous ones that are coming in soon will have to be hung out arrayed in a wall in the balcony in morning sunlight (they have the advantage of not needing pots).

Learned from experience, at least in my setup, that fertilization of indoor plants under lights have to be weak, it's not the same as those outside.  Adapting the orchid growers' practice of "weakly weekly" is a good one.

Brett, nice to hear things are going well may i ask what kind of light meter you have and what readings you got from the sun and your LED?
Also do you know the exact power draw of your LED?

Interesting that you found fertilize less works the best, in my setup its the total opposite! what nutrient's do you use?

This is the light I'm thinking about getting:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mars2-400w-LED-Grow-Light-5W-Led-Full-Spectrum-Veg-Flower-Kit-Free-Hanger/181325156235?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D8124452837981419626%26pid%3D100085%26prg%3D20140211132617%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D151186702706%26clkid%3D8124453601445144974&_qi=RTM1562570

Ryan wrote:This is the light I'm thinking about getting:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mars2-400w-LED-Grow-Light-5W-Led-Full-Spectrum-Veg-Flower-Kit-Free-Hanger/181325156235?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D8124452837981419626%26pid%3D100085%26prg%3D20140211132617%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D151186702706%26clkid%3D8124453601445144974&_qi=RTM1562570

Sure, US $200 is a good price for a ~190Watt LED, but to be honest there is no way it uses quality LED chips, drivers and a proper heatsink for that price. And a 1 year warranty say it all IMO. That light will most likely not last very long.

Good LED lights are expensive and for a good reason, they are build with only the best components to last you many many years while using as little electricity as possible, so even if the price is high for a good light, it will pay for it self in the long run.

You really get what you pay for when it comes to LEDs.

I disagree. If you do some searching you'll find nothing but good reviews on this light. You don't have to pay over $1,000 to get a good light.

Ryan wrote:I disagree. If you do some searching you'll find nothing but good reviews on this light. You don't have to pay over $1,000 to get a good light.

If reviews are good then i would say go for it, its a nice price for a lot of LED power its not like i am saying all Chinese LEDs are crap, just look at the strong growth Brett has under his light!
All i am saying is that the more expensive lights are most often more efficient and reliably due to better quality components being used.

how big is the area in witch you plan to use the LED?

Dreamcast wrote:

Ryan wrote:I disagree. If you do some searching you'll find nothing but good reviews on this light. You don't have to pay over $1,000 to get a good light.

If reviews are good then i would say go for it, its a nice price for a lot of LED power its not like i am saying all Chinese LEDs are crap, just look at the strong growth Brett has under his light!
All i am saying is that the more expensive lights are most often more efficient and reliably due to better quality components being used.

how big is the area in witch you plan to use the LED?

But it's also a light I cannot get. You all are able to get these lights that are over in Europe and I don't have access to them. I plan on using the light in a mylar tent.

This is the light Brett bought, right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-IR-For-Indoor-Grow-Greenhouse-Hydroponic-Plant-/291003115391?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item43c123277f

And it's under $120. Yet look how well it's doing for him. Maybe I'll try that one?

Ryan wrote:This is the light Brett bought, right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-IR-For-Indoor-Grow-Greenhouse-Hydroponic-Plant-/291003115391?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item43c123277f

And it's under $120. Yet look how well it's doing for him. Maybe I'll try that one?

I think that's the one he uses, hopefully Brett can confirm it

A word of advice if you plan to use a growtent, there are many stories online of tents killing plants due to something call "off gassing", i am not sure if this is still a existing problem but worth reading up on witch brands are safe, would be a total disaster if ones trees would die!   

I use tents to, right now i have 4 small ones and will have a CloneBox View up and running the coming days, they are all from a company named HOMEbox and suppose to be 100% off gassing free.

Dreamcast wrote:

A word of advice if you plan to use a growtent, there are many stories online of tents killing plants due to something call "off gassing", i am not sure if this is still a existing problem but worth reading up on witch brands are safe, would be a total disaster if ones trees would die!   

Yup. I haven't had a problem yet though.

Ryan wrote:Yup. I haven't had a problem yet though.

Nice to hear! how big is your tent?

Dreamcast wrote:

Ryan wrote:Yup. I haven't had a problem yet though.

Nice to hear! how big is your tent?

It's a 4x2x4.

Ryan, then we will be using the same size tents.

looking forward to see your setup after installing the LED.

Well I haven't decided if I'm getting that light yet.

Brett, can you confirm that that is the same light you bought?

I do like this light:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mars2-700w-LED-Grow-Light-5W-Led-Full-Spectrum-LED-Lighting-Free-Hanger-/181307966442?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item2a36cc03ea