Knot pine style

AlainK wrote:Hello Andrew,

µthen you won't mind my repeating that if I find it very intersting from a technical point of view, I still believe that it looks totally artificial, even more from this angle.

From "Burton" to "Bretzel" ?...

I very much prefer Laurent's Pinus unciniata. OK, I'm sooo traditional...

I think we get it mate - you don't like the tree. We understand now, but I'm sure nobody will mind if you tell us another few times.

AlainK wrote:Hello Andrew,

Andrew Campbell wrote:
Personally I love this tree and the controversy it has caused.

µthen you won't mind my repeating that if I find it very intersting from a technical point of view, I still believe that it looks totally artificial, even more from this angle.

From "Burton" to "Bretzel" ?...

I very much prefer Laurent's Pinus unciniata. OK, I'm sooo traditional...

Dont mind you repeating it at all AlainK, but ask your self......why do you feel the need to repeat it?

Very interesting looking tree, can't wait to see it well-developed in a decade! All credits to you for thinking outside of the box and going against the norm.

AlainK wrote:Hello Andrew,

Andrew Campbell wrote:
Personally I love this tree and the controversy it has caused.

µthen you won't mind my repeating that if I find it very intersting from a technical point of view, I still believe that it looks totally artificial, even more from this angle.

From "Burton" to "Bretzel" ?...

I very much prefer Laurent's Pinus unciniata. OK, I'm sooo traditional...

ya know...ive read back on your posts in this thread thinking i missed something...trying to figure out the point you are trying to make...the "enlightenment" you are trying to share with us...but, there isnt one...its all just code for "i hate this tree and feel the need to tell everyone in as many different ways as i possibly can"...forgive me, but your comments in THIS thread have crossed the realm into annoying long ago, and are now bordering the realm of ocd bitterness....its almost like you have a grudge againt this tree and are luanching some kind of passive agressive campaign against it...honestly, its kinda weird...nobody ever said you have to like this tree, and it has been shown time and time again that nobody really cares if you do or dont like the tree...why is this so personal for you? why do you care so much? why do you feel the need to keep stating your case over and over as if your goal is to sway people to your side (and ultimately, away from liking this tree)? i really dont understand what you are trying to accomplish here...and, honestly, im not sure you do either...sometimes its best to have your opinions, and let others have theirs without trying to make one conform to the other...

Not sure myself of the purpose of berating someone for commenting too much. But, and hopefully on a more useful note, the only thing of interest remaining in this thread (as I've already stated my opinion) is the drumbeat of commentary that strongly suggests that being controversial is in and of itself a positive thing in art, and possibly sufficient by itself to make a piece worthy. Not much of a challenge really there - again the example of the Jesus statue in a jar of urine says it all for me. Controversial doesn't equal good.

Velodog2 wrote:
Not sure myself of the purpose of berating someone for commenting too much. But, and hopefully on a more useful note, the only thing of interest remaining in this thread (as I've already stated my opinion) is the drumbeat of commentary that strongly suggests that being controversial is in and of itself a positive thing in art, and possibly sufficient by itself to make a piece worthy. Not much of a challenge really there - again the example of the Jesus statue in a jar of urine says it all for me. Controversial doesn't equal good.

im not berating someone for commenting too much...im pointing out that the tone of the comments are...well...berating to many others...another thing some could take as berating is the comparison made to a jar of urine...possibly just a witty metaphor...but remember, witty doesnt equal appropriate.

I continue to mention that example as it is an actual 'piece' that was famously funded by the US govt and used as a reason for gutting govt support for the arts. The fact that you find it inappropriate simply verifies its controversial nature, making it a very appropriate example in this case by many people's reasoning here.

Velodog2 wrote:I continue to mention that example as it is an actual 'piece' that was famously funded by the US govt and used as a reason for gutting govt support for the arts. The fact that you find it inappropriate simply verifies its controversial nature, making it a very appropriate example in this case by many people's reasoning here.

well...no...because who funded this tree? is this tree being used as a "reason" for anything? is this tree somehow controversial? did the op make any such claims? did the op say that this tree is "the true vision of bonsai" or anything along those lines? no...none of that happened...the only thing that happened is that the op designed a tree out of the norm...some people like it...some people dont...some people dont like, but respect the aspects involved in it...and some people, have decided their personal opinion on the subjecct stands above all others, and have repeatedly taken that tone in several responses, often belittling the tree, and the designer in the process of voicing their discontent...maybe that was done so inadvertantly and unknowingly, i cant say for sure...but it was done none the less...

but here is really the main thing...did you go to see this famous jesus? did you pop up at the exhibit and declare to everyone that it "isnt art, it is merley jesus in pee pee"?...probably not...but here you are on this thread, with no constructtive feedback or positive comments doing exactly that...i for one do not go to exhibits simply to bring down the artists because i dont like their work...i also dont go onto threads to voice my dislike of someones design...especially when the skill involved in creating the design is obviously advanced...this thread has a couple, or as you would like to refer to it "many" people who are simply here to voice their dislike...and voice their dislike again...and again...and again...and prove the case for their dissaproval forgetting the fact that their approval was never sought to begin with and ultimately means nothing...so why keep commenting? are you guys waiting for opinion to matter or something?

i mean...you really dont see how some of the comments made could be offensive or rude?

I love this tree and all the internet hulks this has transformed

Just Mike wrote:i mean...you really dont see how some of the comments made could be offensive or rude?

Virtually anything at all could be taken as offensive or rude, if you wanted to take it that way. I think we digress and I would hate to be responsible for having this thread shut down on my account.

Once again, we're going pretty far afield here, folks.

IF -- repeat, IF -- there is anything more to say constructively, pro or con, on this tree, go ahead. But expressing an opinion and making suggestions on this tree once -- or even twice if some clarification is needed -- would should be sufficient, or so it would seem to me. Going beyond comments on the tree, is inappropriate.

If you want to discuss art as it applies to bonsai, we've done that and you can find one of those threads and add your opinions, if you must. If you want to discuss art as art, there probably are other forums that would welcome your thoughts. The same with wasteful government spending -- on arts or anything else; do it elsewhere, please.

Arigato.

prrrt...nothing very interresting in all this discussion since the last time i came^^

velodog...nobody said controversy is the only solution to make beauty
its just one solution...one way beetween a forest of other ones
also...nobody said this tree is a price winner....or the best tree we ve ever saw
it s just a funny game as bonsai should always be...
because bonsai is a game...an art and a game...let s play as law did with this pine and stop waisting your (and our)time in unproductive talks

is it supposed to be serious?^^

Cram, very serious.. isn't it?

Velodog, controversy gets you 2mins of fame... I was in Melb for the 'piss' exhibit & remember nothing but the furore it caused, I can't even remember the name of the artist.... This tree, however, I will remember for the rest of my days. It is unique, not because it is trying to be controversial but because the artist is comfortable enough with his own vision to be able to create it.

I suggest comparison to the tree on page 112 of Fine Bonsai / Singer & Valavanis

cram wrote:prrrt...nothing very interresting in all this discussion since the last time i came^^

What do you mean?... No "Hail to the chief", no thousands of followers ready to take over and start the new age of bonsai?...

Be patient, my friend, martyrdom is a sure sign of true prophets, but it can take a long time: how many years did it take to achieve this masterpiece ?



or this one :



or this other one (perhaps my favorite) :



Chin up mate, no surrender!

This is one of the threads i have enjoyed throughly in following.

We have similar commentaries on the Koi chatlines that I follow. The japanese have certain color pattern standards and to vary from them can be quite sacreligious. There is a koi called asagi, the first color variety bred. It's basically a fish with blue back and red belly. When they are raised all the ones that have the red encroaching over the back and eliminating the blue are destroyed.

Recently I feel in love with an all red one.How it manage to survive the culling process, I'll never know. To me it was the poster child of wabi sabi. Boy did i create quite the termoil on the chatlines. End result the owner is sending me the koi to raise and enjoy. Which i will.

It is my belief that to learn the way of the japanese is to have paid your dues to know when you can break the rules according to your own conviction for advancement. Kimura was bold enough to do things differently. I see the same trend in my teacher ( Ryan neil). I liked the tree and would have done similarly had it fallen into my hands.Whether bonsai or koi or any of the other japanese hobbies I've invested my life in (suiseki, mums, Ikebana) I think being open to all view points makes you open to new ideas or helps to re-enforce your conviction. Either of which is good and should be tolerated for the give and take that makes a chatline the valuable resourse that it is to many.

Well said, Dick.

I wanted to buy a "Lunar pot" but finally it was a little bit expensive to me... so i've decided to make an iron one and the same for the table. The cocoon as benn made from old barrel circles and the table with parts of an old gate recuparated in a garden.

I will have to remove some branches this autumn but for the moment i let it grow.

Hope Mr K will like it, all my work and my artistic research are based on his single opinion.

Cant' wait for his answer. [/url[url=https://servimg.com/view/14712944/1257][/url[url=https://servimg.com/view/14712944/1258]

Salut Laurent, Hi everyone,

law wrote:I wanted to buy a "Lunar pot" but finally it was a little bit expensive to me... so i've decided to make an iron one and the same for the table. The cocoon was made from old barrel circles and the table with parts of an old gate recuparated in a garden.

I love that approach. To me, a good architecht bears in mind the environment and history of the location: this makes sense.

law wrote:
I will have to remove some branches this autumn but for the moment i let it grow.

So far so good

law wrote:
Hope Mr K will like it, all my work and my artistic research are based on his single opinion.

Cant' wait for his answer.

Ach, stop sirring me. But I must confess I'm flattered.

I must think it over, and it's nearly time for me to go to bed but I will take again my brushes and try to help you. Stay tuned, I'll be back soon

Don't have the time to unwind macramé these days, but here is something that I hope will soothe your (bitter,) mind.

Good to listen to (full blast) when wiring, and I think the intricacy of the sounds can match your style, if not your mood:

I'm sorry to say but it looks like a man got hold of it and tied it up in a knot.

Dave.

I prefer you in this kind of mood MrK. Like this music...

Finished the construction, nexte step, put the tree inside, and remove the branches.

I think i will make two faces, one classic and another less.

Wonderful even without the tree, can't wait to see them combined. A few questions:
Will the weight of the tree effect the angle that the 'pot' will hang? And will the tree be kept hanging, or will it only be when the tree is displayed? And if the latter, how will you support the 'pot' so that the tree is left to develop and the correct angle?

The gallows angle have been calculated to support the weight of the tree.. The tree will grow in the "cocoon pot" ourtside of the structure, which one will be kept in a dry place to not rust to fast.

And for the last question, the tree will grow in another gallow that i made for it in my garden.

So many technical issues ! Do you work for Nasa.



Hope i've understood all your questions, and if it's not the case, forgive me, my english is very poor, but i do my best.