Posting & Membership

Billy M. Rhodes Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:30 pm

We have over 3000 registered users, but we have 2115 registered users who have never posted. Some of these members have been on the list since the beginning in 2009 and visit often, maybe daily, but never post.
Just wondering.
From someone who has trouble keeping his mouth shut or his fingers idle.

William N. Valavanis Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:52 pm

Billy,

I see nothing wrong with silent members!

Perhaps they have no questions and are just learning or enjoying the photos.

Perhaps they have nothing constructive to add to the postings, rather than just to say "thank you", or "I agree with that" or even better I saw one posting say "I have nothing to add to the post, but just wanted to contribute something."

Sometimes silence is golden...

There are plenty of others who, unfortunately, take up the slack.

Just my thoughts this Monday morning on this post which I think should not have been posted and me for adding to the dribble. I better get outside and move my bonsai outside into the sun for the day so I can again move them indoors for the freezing night.

Bill

coh Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:00 pm

Thank you! I agree with that, but really I have nothing to add to the post...just wanted to contribute something.

Oops! Razz

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:01 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:We have over 3000 registered users, but we have 2115 registered users who have never posted. Some of these members have been on the list since the beginning in 2009 and visit often, maybe daily, but never post.
Just wondering.
From someone who has trouble keeping his mouth shut or his fingers idle.

Billy,

I could have sworn this is me talking LOL.

Maybe they are trying to avoid trouble makers like me? Very Happy

Someone who talk more than they should Embarassed

. If more people post...I might slow down. How's that for incentive?! Kidding aside, I hope more people do jump in. It is nice to have new perspective & ideas (right, wrong, or different), it makes for a livelier conversation and may lead to new techniques.

We are lucky to have the cream of the crop here who are great artists, experienced, good teachers, and willing to share as well. That combination is a rarity. You just don't know if they can help you until you start posting. Wink

Don't be shy, jump in, the water is fine. Smile

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:38 pm

One thing for the active members (as I posted earlier on another thread), new members may be turned off by lack of activity on their thread. I was very excited and very proud of my sticks and stumps (still am) and no one responded. The feeling of being ignored or not fitting in is awful. I personally almost left due to this.

Remember...all of us were new to this once.

Just something to consider when someone new decides (and muster enough courage) to post.

drgonzo Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:12 pm

William N. Valavanis wrote: I better get outside and move my bonsai outside into the sun for the day so I can again move them indoors for the freezing night.
Bill

YAY, I'm not the only one! cheers

-Jay

PS Other than that I'm forced to agree with Chris.

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:23 pm

drgonzo wrote:
William N. Valavanis wrote: I better get outside and move my bonsai outside into the sun for the day so I can again move them indoors for the freezing night.
Bill
YAY, I'm not the only one!

You mean not everyone is getting sunburn while working on their trees yet? We've been hitting high 80s for 2 weeks now and our lows are in the 60s. I seriously have tan lines already. You all can laugh at me when I complain about 100+ *F temps in a month or so. Mad

**JimLewis** Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:44 pm

There are plenty of others who, unfortunately, take up the slack.

!!

Billy M. Rhodes Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:01 pm

Bill V. - My comments were not meant as criticism of those who don't contribute, it was just an observation.

Poink88 - I will try to be more encouraging.

jgeanangel Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:33 pm

William N. Valavanis wrote:Billy,

I see nothing wrong with silent members!

Perhaps they have no questions and are just learning or enjoying the photos.

Perhaps they have nothing constructive to add to the postings, rather than just to say "thank you", or "I agree with that" or even better I saw one posting say "I have nothing to add to the post, but just wanted to contribute something."

Sometimes silence is golden...

There are plenty of others who, unfortunately, take up the slack.

Just my thoughts this Monday morning on this post which I think should not have been posted and me for adding to the dribble. I better get outside and move my bonsai outside into the sun for the day so I can again move them indoors for the freezing night.

Bill

Well said Bill... It already seems like the quality of the posting here are down significantly from what they have been in the past...more and more of the folks like you who have added great content in the past are just slowly getting frustrated and taking their content else where and I can't really blame them. For me personally, I wish there was a beginner section where all of the beginner stuff could be kept together and they, the beginners and those who are masters of this hobby after two months, could continue to offer each other advice until the cows come home.

And for those that take up the slack that you mentioned...wouldn't it be great if there was a muzzle button...after 10 people "muzzle you" your reply privileges are frozen for a week! I am sure I would be the first muzzled!
John

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:50 pm

jgeanangel wrote:
And for those that take up the slack that you mentioned...wouldn't it be great if there was a muzzle button...after 10 people "muzzle you" your reply privileges are frozen for a week! I am sure I would be the first muzzled!
John

I am sure I will be the first to be muzzled. I like how you share your knowledge and no offense meant but based on this post, I am glad you are not running this forum. Wink

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:11 pm

jgeanangel wrote:
Well said Bill... It already seems like the quality of the posting here are down significantly from what they have been in the past...more and more of the folks like you who have added great content in the past are just slowly getting frustrated and taking their content else where and I can't really blame them. For me personally, I wish there was a beginner section where all of the beginner stuff could be kept together and they, the beginners and those who are masters of this hobby after two months, could continue to offer each other advice until the cows come home.

How did you come to this conclusion? Is it because they got frustrated or just decided to move on?

When do you think "newbies" earn their right to speak?

jgeanangel Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:03 pm

Poink88 wrote:
jgeanangel wrote:
And for those that take up the slack that you mentioned...wouldn't it be great if there was a muzzle button...after 10 people "muzzle you" your reply privileges are frozen for a week! I am sure I would be the first muzzled!
John
I am sure I will be the first to be muzzled. I like how you share your knowledge and no offense meant but based on this post, I am glad you are not running this forum.

Mr. Dario ...if you will stop being so lazy and expecting everyone to just stop what they are doing and answer your questions and do a little searching of your own and on your own I think you will find that I have contributed significantly to this forum.
John

marcus watts Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:16 pm

haha,
its rude not to join this thread......................................

All forums, clubs and sellers of bonsai (at least one has posted above) need NEW BLOOD. The new blood in 99% of the cases will be beginners so to stick them in a 'beginners corner' is a huge mistake. The people still wanting to learn outnumber the resident experts on here by about 800:1 so the mass deserves the right to post under 'bonsai' and 'questions'..........it would be better to create a section for 'advanced techniques, theories and methods' to satisfy the needs of the more experienced - with ruthless moderating to move the posts if they are about chopping a trunk off or digging up a tree that wont be ready for 15+ years... Twisted Evil

..........

to enter the advanced area we need to pass a spelling test, punctuation test, the ability to use the 'search feature' test, and a 100 question general bonsai knowledge test.....majoring in american bonsai history maybe ! (tic)

Its a good job 12-15 of use do add regularly to most threads - there is nothing more boring than seeing no new posts when you log in.

All forums have a drifting population - but this forum certainly has the best and most diverse group of posters and seems to hang on to many....sometimes the members knowledge base inches up a notch and earlier frequent posters become the learners again, nothing wrong with that, there is always room to learn and improve in this hobby - I just wish Byorn, Ryan or Peter T would pop up and say hi...................

Dario note...........I said all my bits in one post not 4 !! hahahahahahaha (for now)

cheers Marcus cheers

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:27 pm

I got a PM answer re: this question. When do you think "newbies" earn their right to speak?

and the answer is......

When they can show that they know what they are talking about in the trees they produce. Or, when they can clearly show that they have credentials -- education or YEARS of experience -- in other areas, such as fertilizers, pesticides, insects and diseases, etc.

A little knowledge is a dangerous -- and off putting -- thing.

=============================================

I say bull and if it is what the forum stands for, I guess I (and all newbies) should shut up contrary to what this thread was trying to promote.

Sam Ogranaja Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:42 pm

Well hot dang....This turned spicy in a moment.

I wonder how many of those silent posters are looking at our topics and not replying. I know Dario's posts had gone to 300-400 views with no responses and I personally remember looking at some of them and not responding. At the time I thought about typing something non related just to bring the topic more current for others to see as well, but didn't.

I'll tell you why. I consider myself a newbie as well and I'm a man who knows what he knows and is studying on what he doesn't know, I try to not say too much unless I'm certain. Maybe the drifters are driving up the hits on topics but are not responding, possibly leaving the poster frustrated.

I agree with Marcus, maybe we need an advanced area. Some of the people that post on this forum are awesome and for fear of sounding like a major BROWN NOSER, I'll leave the names out.

As members we're lucky to be witnesses to some world class trees that get posted here, so I can see why there are quite a few non-posters. Maybe one day they'll have something to say and we'll be pleasantly surprised, until then, as the French say, C'est La vie.

As far as when have newbies earned their right to speak; I find this question and anyone's view who thinks that they don't have a right to speak, RIDICULOUS.

Have a great week everyone!!!!
Sam

jgeanangel Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:44 pm

Poink88 wrote:I got a PM answer re: this question. When do you think "newbies" earn their right to speak?

and the answer is......

When they can show that they know what they are talking about in the trees they produce. Or, when they can clearly show that they have credentials -- education or YEARS of experience -- in other areas, such as fertilizers, pesticides, insects and diseases, etc.

A little knowledge is a dangerous -- and off putting -- thing.

=============================================

I say bull and if it is what the forum stands for, I guess I (and all newbies) should shut up contrary to what this thread was trying to promote.

Just to be clear this is not my response...

But...I will pose this question...when do you want a newbie answering questions about your trees?

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:48 pm

jgeanangel wrote:
But...I will pose this question...when do you want a newbie answering questions about your trees?

As I told you in a PM. I don't care who answers. I choose what/whose advise I will follow.

Right or wrong, I want everyone to have a voice and if they are mistaken, hopefully someone (like you) would set them right.

marcus watts Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:49 pm

Poink88 wrote:I got a PM answer re: this question. When do you think "newbies" earn their right to speak?

and the answer is......

When they can show that they know what they are talking about in the trees they produce. Or, when they can clearly show that they have credentials -- education or YEARS of experience -- in other areas, such as fertilizers, pesticides, insects and diseases, etc.

A little knowledge is a dangerous -- and off putting -- thing.

There is a fine line of middle ground to tread here though...........

You do need practical experience in the methods required to keep and maintain bonsai to be able to give proven advice...if any individual has never perfected a technique or proven a theory, method or recipe on their own trees they should not really use their lack of practical experience to answer someone elses question (asking the questions is the obvious route I would have thought) - people newcomers to the hobby may damage or even kill their own trees by trusting or believing written advice from unknown or unproven sources.

Its why the gallery (or links to gallery page) will be a good feature if it ever comes off, at least at the click of a button you can see if the talker of the talk can walk the walk....

cheers marcus

Billy M. Rhodes Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:51 pm

OK, I started something again.
As to "newbies" posting. There are members who may be new to bonsai but have experience with specific species and will be able to contribute.

**JimLewis** Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:54 pm

Whoa, whoa . . . Yes, we have a few newcomers to the sport of bonsai who seem to take up an inordinate amount of the discussion with little real benefit to the rest of us, but on the other hand, we have many too few people who seem willing to answer the questions of those who are new to bonsai and know it. We also have a large number of people who seem only to want to show their fine works. I enjoy looking at these, too, but I do wish more of them folks would hold out a helping hand occasionally.

Unfortunately, the Internet tends to pander to those who want things handed to them, rather than doing as much of the research as they can first -- and THEN asking for guidance. Back in the day, we either read a lot of books and got ourselves slowly -- and often poorly and mistakenly -- self started, or we joined a local club (if available) and we attended bonsai conventions and took workshops and took in demonstrations by local, or sometimes regional "experts." (Today's conventions -- many of them -- have international names as guest experts, but unfortunately, they also have priced themselves out of the reach of many of the younger, would-be bonsaiests, so are of little help to increasing our gene pool.)

Anyway, thanks to all who DO try to help the neophytes. With groveling apologies to all those I miss from my off-the-top recall (increasingly faulty as the years pass), thanks to John, John, Fiona, Kev, David, Will, and Iris and Billy (who've been doing it as long as anyone), Russell, Marcus, Bob, Rob, Tim, Todd, Tom, and of course, William and Peter. Don't stop.

Please!

Guest Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:59 pm

Wow this post could get really HOT Evil or Very Mad

so lets keep it civil.

The best advice I can give is... look at the trees of the folk who are offering help... are they healthy? Then trust their horticultural advice, are they styled well, trust their skill as an artist... both, then wash their pots at their feet and listen.

Sam Ogranaja Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:01 pm

JimLewis wrote:Anyway, thanks to all who DO try to help the neophytes. With groveling apologies to all those I miss from my off-the-top recall (increasingly faulty as the years pass), thanks to John, John, Fiona, Kev, David, Will, and Iris and Billy (who've been doing it as long as anyone), Russell, Marcus, Bob, Rob, Tim, Todd, Tom, and of course, William and Peter. Don't stop. Please!

I'd like to add Jim Lewis to that list.
~Sam

Poink88 Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:08 pm

Too many names to mention but I'd also add Robert Stevens, Marijah, Walter Pall, Sebastijan etc. who may not be posting much here but have tons of info shared in their blogs, etc.

Storm Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:09 pm

Well, there is another thing to remember here. Im going a bit more to the original topic here, and come with a response to why there might be so many lurkers here. We have people from all over the world. There might be language difficulties. There might be those who like to watch others trees and dont have a chance to go to shows. And there might be those with species and habitat that doesnt seem like others.
I live in Norway. I dont see many others from here posting. I know there are a few from Denmark, but that also differs.
I dont live close to any shows. I have to go to other countries to see them. Many like myself cant afford that and dont have any ways to join a club.
What I learn is what I see and read on the web. But most of it is learned by my own mistakes. I was pretty active in the start but I know I have absolutely nothing to contribute with other than saying "Nice tree" or "fantastic result". Thats why I post things I know a bit more about.
How could I help someone with a design on trees that Ive never seen in person? Not even the species, ever.

And, we dont know what happens in Pm's. People here might send a ton of pm's to eachother without engaging others in a thread.
I dont send many, and I hardly write here. But im here many times a day and read on topics.

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