Apple / Malus & Quince urban yamadori

PaulH wrote:I suspect your apple may be infected with nematodes. Were there lumpy nodules on the roots?

None. The roots and everything an inch or so under the soil are actually normal and very healthy looking.

drgonzo wrote:Bob and Jim are right take that branch to an AG office. Don't be too disappointed fruit trees when left unattended often become sick and diseased.

Bob, Jim, and Jay.

I talked to the master gardener and after an interview, I was asked to email them (at Texas A&M University) pictures and narrative of my observation. They will research/evaluate and let me know if I need to bring the plant in or not.

Thanks!

Poink88 wrote:

drgonzo wrote:Bob and Jim are right take that branch to an AG office. Don't be too disappointed fruit trees when left unattended often become sick and diseased.

Bob, Jim, and Jay.

I talked to the master gardener and after an interview, I was asked to email them (at Texas A&M University) pictures and narrative of my observation. They will research/evaluate and let me know if I need to bring the plant in or not.

Thanks!

I look forward to hearing their diagnosis.
-Jay

Jay,

Me too. Don't hold your breath though, I was told it may take a week or longer.

From another forum...someone posted this.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/crabappl.htm

"Pests and Diseases

Crown gall is sometimes a 'problem'. This is a parasite that makes warty nodules on the surface roots and crown of the plant. It seems to cause no adverse symptoms, and some of my trees have lived with it for years. The wonderful thing about it is that it creates spectacular nebari. I have one plant in training that has about a two inch trunk, but the gall covers about ten inches of root surface, which will nearly fill the pot when it is finished."

The master gardener sent me a response stating that these galls (insect) should not kill the tree if the insects are eradicated and should stop further gall formation/spread. This type of formation is not bacterial/fungal/viral. She also sent me this link...

http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/publications/epubs/e-397.cfm

Sigh...all is well I hope. Now I can sleep better and continue hoping the tree bounce back and recover.

Poink88 wrote:The master gardener sent me a response stating that these galls (insect) should not kill the tree if the insects are eradicated and should stop further gall formation/spread. This type of formation is not bacterial/fungal/viral. She also sent me this link...

http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/publications/epubs/e-397.cfm

Sigh...all is well I hope. Now I can sleep better and continue hoping the tree bounce back and recover.

This is good news! Thank you for the link as well!
-Jay

hi,
hope it all goes well, but if it dies collect a bigger rootball next time and put the tree in a specially built wooden box. There is no hurry to put the tree in a small pot as it needs 3-5 years unpruned growth to strengthen properly to cope with styling. Newly collected trees with virtually no roots do survive, but the methods to give them a fighting chance include wood or ceramic pots rather than plastic (if plastic is used perforated baskets are better than solid plastic as solid plastic is cold and not breathable, poor conditions for new root growth). Live sphagnum moss is the best potting medium by miles, and underheat will encourage roots to grow. Finally it is essential a trunk with no feeder roots does not dry out, so either seal all cuts above and BELOW the soil line or create a humidity cover, or better still both. New buds can form before the roots too, this is the tree using stored energy to make buds - mist them or they wilt. apples need routine spraying too as they attract every disease they can.

Dont be tempted to carve it or work the deadwood either - all the vibrating and small movements will knock off the microscopic new root tips that hopefully are forming.

be patient for the next few years and you will succeed as they make roots quite easily.

cheers Marcus

Marcus,

Thanks for the input. This was collected 4 days ago...is it too late to transplant this in a soda crate lined with landscaping fabric (perforated weed barrier) and put some sphagnum moss? I am tempted to repot but would like to know if it will do more harm than good. I am assuming there should be no root growth yet to disturb in 4 days but I could be wrong.

I will seal the cuts tonight...I was debating it because of the mixed input I am reading (pro vs anti sealing) but will go ahead because this tree is "weird" that it actually flows water (I presume sap) on the hardwood also of some branches...not just the perimeter/cadmium area. Thoughts on this?

BTW, the pot size is just because of space limitation ... I have a deeper plastic crate/bin that can hold more volume (about triple) if I can still re-pot now.

Whenever I have done Major (capital M) root work on collected trees I always dust the cut area with rooting hormone that contains an anti-fungal. The hormone helps the tree to begin callousing the wound and the anti-fungal is excellent with regards to helping keep the tree itself free from varius infection that could easily enter the large surface area exposed by major root pruning. Keep in mind that "rooting" hormone does not produce roots itself, it merely speeds up cell replication. I use Rootone.

The ONE time I experimented with leaving my root cuts untreated the tree got Verticillium and died. The oospore no doubt entered through the unsealed wounds below the soil surface.
-Jay

Jay,

Not sure what happened but I made too many mistakes on this tree...maybe due to the fumigation and cleaning I had to do for both this and the quince...I got sloppy and forgot many steps (root hormone application, sphagnum moss, making cleaner cuts on the root chops, etc.)

You think it is better to uproot/redo this and repot? Thanks.

Poink88 wrote:Jay,

Not sure what happened but I made too many mistakes on this tree...maybe due to the fumigation and cleaning I had to do for both this and the quince...I got sloppy and forgot many steps (root hormone application, sphagnum moss, making cleaner cuts on the root chops, etc.)

You think it is better to uproot/redo this and repot? Thanks.

If you feel that the trees health would be better served in the long run by popping it out and doing the correct work now then yes go ahead, I don't think the tree, still dormant and only a few days out of the ground, will feel a thing!

Then you can situate it correctly and forget about it with a clear conscience for the next few years. If it were my tree I would go ahead and do what needs doing now, rather than have to correct an issue later on.

-Jay

Jay,

Marcus offered the same advise so I went ahead and re-potted it. Treated all the cuts with rooting hormone and basically wrapped it with sphagnum moss as I plant it. It also went into a bigger and deeper crate and is secured much better now. New container is also more "breathable" since it have holes all around so all walls and bottom is lined with landscaping fiber. I hope the tree recovers faster now.

Thank you.

There is some debate about the practice of putting rooting hormone on root tissue. The hormone concoctions are meant to promote root growth from stem tissue. I've read some extension documents -- and have been told by folks with more expertise than me -- that indicate their use on root tissue actually inhibits root formation.

Jim,
Interesting. Would you know if a taproot (say 4" wide) is considered root or stem tissue? That is where I applied the root hormone. Note too that below that cut, there were suckers growing so I am inclined to believe it can be classified as stem tissue. Thoughts?

Poink88 wrote:Jim,
Interesting. Would you know if a taproot (say 4" wide) is considered root or stem tissue? That is where I applied the root hormone. Note too that below that cut, there were suckers growing so I am inclined to believe it can be classified as stem tissue. Thoughts?

A freshly sawn tap root 4 inches wide is stem tissue, its xylem, phloem, and two cambiums (periderm and vascular) just as you find in the trunk of a tree. There is no differentiated root tissue as you have cut it all off. On tissue that has differentiated into true root tissue (white feeder roots) the IBA or NAA hormone may indeed have a different and possibly inhibiting effect. The two auxins in the various rooting compounds do nothing more than speed up plant cell replication/division. They do not provide the specific hormone that tells plant cells to produce roots, or stems or any other specifically differentiated plant material. All they do is help form a callous quickly, from this callous the tree can then decide to extend roots.

besides I think I get more benefit from the anti-fungal (Thiram) in my Rootone than anything else.
-Jay

hi Jay,
your the man!! i really enjoy reading your in depth knowledge and experience of plant taxonomy.

cheers, keep it up,

marcus

marcus watts wrote:hi Jay,
your the man!! i really enjoy reading your in depth knowledge and experience of plant taxonomy.

cheers, keep it up,

marcus

I've been forced to learn a little about plant anatomy throughout my "career", but for Taxonomy, I turn to Iris.

Thank you Marcus!
-Jay

UPDATE: 3 of my apples (including the main tree) have buds!!! Just a few and all are still very tiny and are covered with fuzzy white thingies/hairs but I am very glad to see them.

Poink88 wrote:UPDATE: 3 of my apples (including the main tree) have buds!!! Just a few and all are still very tiny and are covered with fuzzy white thingies/hairs but I am very glad to see them.

Thats a good sign. Now keep an eye out for signs of dehydration, green stems wilting, leaves flagging. If you notice these signs and your soil is moist, consider building a little clear poly cover out of say a dry-cleaning bag or something similar to help create a humidity dome for the new growth, in order to slow down the transpiration rate. Keep the stumps out of direct hot sun if you do.

Take a look at Harry Harringtons work with this rootless Hawthorn
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATHawthornLilfordProgression.htm
-Jay

Will do and thanks for the tips.