Apple / Malus & Quince urban yamadori

Here is the apple I dug up today...I pray it survives since I was not able to get much roots. The buried base is even better and it has some nice deadwood as well.

The burl like growths seems like roots so I potted a branch trimming with some of it as well a root to see if they will sprout.

Here it is as found.


After trimming


After re-pot.




Detail of the base w/ deadwood.

Thats a great piece of material, I hope it survives. I would like to have seen a picture of what the galls you described with "roots" looked like.

I'll give you a word of advice/warning, do yourself a favor and swab your tools with rubbing alcohol when your finished after every time you work on this tree until you have established it is disease free. Wild collected ( by that I mean any apple that was not under regimented professional orchard/nursery horticultural practices) apples can often carry all sorts of things you would not want to transfer unintentionally to other plants...just be a little careful for a time and keep an eye out for problems with growth or fungus, already I am suspicious of your "rooted branches" indicating something might be up with this tree.

At this point I would allow the tree to grow unhindered for say the next 3 years.
-Jay

Jay, Look at the last pic...there are lots of the root ball like stuff. I saw some insects in it as well as the dead wood...so it got sprayed shortly after arriving home. I think the roots are the trees reaction to the insects attacking it. A lot of the "roots" are dead but a lot are also fresh.

Thanks for the warning..I will clean my tools tomorrow.

BTW, I also collected this quince from the same property. This is actually reduced by about 25% width wise, because I removed some to open it up and access the inside to remove dead branches...lots of it.

I'm only guessing that what your indicating in the last picture as the source of "roots" are the blackish lumpy warty growths? Is there any way you could circle or point out in the photo what your referring to?

a tree reacting to insect attack by producing roots is not anything I've ever run into in my experience.
-Jay

Jay, Yes those wart looking things all around the tree on all the pics. It looks like burls or burrs and roots at the same time to me. I planted a few branches with those in the soil...we will see if they will take. If not, no harm done.

I think those are galls caused by an infection. You might check with your local agricultural extension office -- uproot one of the branches you planted and have them look at it.

I had something like it in apples planted in my yard in Zone 8b Tallahassee, FL and was told it was common on fruiting members of the Rosa family and that the tree would eventually die.

So keep it segregated from any other bonsai you have in the huge Rose family, and have the extension agent look at it.

JimLewis wrote:I think those are galls caused by an infection. ... I had something like it in apples planted in my yard in Zone 8b Tallahassee, FL and was told it was common on fruiting members of the Rosa family and that the tree would eventually die.

If the tree will die soon...that would be a bummer.

I read about galls and it is consistent with what I saw (insect nest almost) and doubt it is fungi, bacteria or virus induced. All the insects are dead now but I will re-treat later and hope for the best. If the insect that's causing the galls are controlled, I hope the tree can recover.

I wouldn't be surprised if the galls were caused by a disease that was introduced by the insects, to be safe I'd follow Jim's advice and let the county ag agent look at it.

Black canker is also common on old apple especially in Texas where warmer temps allow for more fungal growth. Bob and Jim are right take that branch to an AG office. Don't be too disappointed fruit trees when left unattended often become sick and diseased.

Your Quince on the other hand looks pretty good! Of the two I would find it to be a more desirable piece of material, even if the apple trunk was healthy.

-Jay

drgonzo wrote: Black canker is also common on old apple especially in Texas where warmer temps allow for more fungal growth. Bob and Jim are right take that branch to an AG office. Don't be too disappointed fruit trees when left unattended often become sick and diseased.

Your Quince on the other hand looks pretty good! Of the two I would find it to be a more desirable piece of material, even if the apple trunk was healthy.

-Jay

I will have it checked next week.

If that is a feel good statement, I thank you. I like the quince too but not as much as the apple. It took me hours cleaning dead branches wedged inside the quince clump. It is so tight, I believe most died by strangulation between each other. Though I said it is reduced 25% width wise...it is reduced 50% number of branches wise. I tried to keep the main dead branches connecting everything as one. Still, I potted 3 other plant that I accidentally broke off from this main plant. It is a bit airy now and here is the possible front showing one plant.

Nice finds Dario! And BIG too!!
I hope the Malus is healthy, love that trunk!

Thanks Joey,

My wife, daughter, and I collected this Saturday...the rain Thursday and Friday made it difficult since the clayey soil was super soggy and sticky. Despite the galls, I really hope it is just insect induced and not bacterial/fungal/viral.

If you have an idea where I can bring a sample to be checked in Austin...it will be much appreciated.

Thank you.

The Agricultural Extension Office (sometimes listed as Agricultural Agent) will be found in the County Government section of most telephone books.

JimLewis wrote:The Agricultural Extension Office (sometimes listed as Agricultural Agent) will be found in the County Government section of most telephone books.

I will try to hunt for one...its been years since I last saw a phone book but I am sure we have one here in the office. Thanks!

It is okay now...found this online. http://www.co.travis.tx.us/agext/

I suspect your apple may be infected with nematodes. Were there lumpy nodules on the roots?

PaulH wrote:I suspect your apple may be infected with nematodes. Were there lumpy nodules on the roots?

None. The roots and everything an inch or so under the soil are actually normal and very healthy looking.

drgonzo wrote:Bob and Jim are right take that branch to an AG office. Don't be too disappointed fruit trees when left unattended often become sick and diseased.

Bob, Jim, and Jay.

I talked to the master gardener and after an interview, I was asked to email them (at Texas A&M University) pictures and narrative of my observation. They will research/evaluate and let me know if I need to bring the plant in or not.

Thanks!

Poink88 wrote:

drgonzo wrote:Bob and Jim are right take that branch to an AG office. Don't be too disappointed fruit trees when left unattended often become sick and diseased.

Bob, Jim, and Jay.

I talked to the master gardener and after an interview, I was asked to email them (at Texas A&M University) pictures and narrative of my observation. They will research/evaluate and let me know if I need to bring the plant in or not.

Thanks!

I look forward to hearing their diagnosis.
-Jay

Jay,

Me too. Don't hold your breath though, I was told it may take a week or longer.

From another forum...someone posted this.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/crabappl.htm

"Pests and Diseases

Crown gall is sometimes a 'problem'. This is a parasite that makes warty nodules on the surface roots and crown of the plant. It seems to cause no adverse symptoms, and some of my trees have lived with it for years. The wonderful thing about it is that it creates spectacular nebari. I have one plant in training that has about a two inch trunk, but the gall covers about ten inches of root surface, which will nearly fill the pot when it is finished."

The master gardener sent me a response stating that these galls (insect) should not kill the tree if the insects are eradicated and should stop further gall formation/spread. This type of formation is not bacterial/fungal/viral. She also sent me this link...

http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/publications/epubs/e-397.cfm

Sigh...all is well I hope. Now I can sleep better and continue hoping the tree bounce back and recover.

Poink88 wrote:The master gardener sent me a response stating that these galls (insect) should not kill the tree if the insects are eradicated and should stop further gall formation/spread. This type of formation is not bacterial/fungal/viral. She also sent me this link...

http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/publications/epubs/e-397.cfm

Sigh...all is well I hope. Now I can sleep better and continue hoping the tree bounce back and recover.

This is good news! Thank you for the link as well!
-Jay

hi,
hope it all goes well, but if it dies collect a bigger rootball next time and put the tree in a specially built wooden box. There is no hurry to put the tree in a small pot as it needs 3-5 years unpruned growth to strengthen properly to cope with styling. Newly collected trees with virtually no roots do survive, but the methods to give them a fighting chance include wood or ceramic pots rather than plastic (if plastic is used perforated baskets are better than solid plastic as solid plastic is cold and not breathable, poor conditions for new root growth). Live sphagnum moss is the best potting medium by miles, and underheat will encourage roots to grow. Finally it is essential a trunk with no feeder roots does not dry out, so either seal all cuts above and BELOW the soil line or create a humidity cover, or better still both. New buds can form before the roots too, this is the tree using stored energy to make buds - mist them or they wilt. apples need routine spraying too as they attract every disease they can.

Dont be tempted to carve it or work the deadwood either - all the vibrating and small movements will knock off the microscopic new root tips that hopefully are forming.

be patient for the next few years and you will succeed as they make roots quite easily.

cheers Marcus

Marcus,

Thanks for the input. This was collected 4 days ago...is it too late to transplant this in a soda crate lined with landscaping fabric (perforated weed barrier) and put some sphagnum moss? I am tempted to repot but would like to know if it will do more harm than good. I am assuming there should be no root growth yet to disturb in 4 days but I could be wrong.

I will seal the cuts tonight...I was debating it because of the mixed input I am reading (pro vs anti sealing) but will go ahead because this tree is "weird" that it actually flows water (I presume sap) on the hardwood also of some branches...not just the perimeter/cadmium area. Thoughts on this?

BTW, the pot size is just because of space limitation ... I have a deeper plastic crate/bin that can hold more volume (about triple) if I can still re-pot now.

Whenever I have done Major (capital M) root work on collected trees I always dust the cut area with rooting hormone that contains an anti-fungal. The hormone helps the tree to begin callousing the wound and the anti-fungal is excellent with regards to helping keep the tree itself free from varius infection that could easily enter the large surface area exposed by major root pruning. Keep in mind that "rooting" hormone does not produce roots itself, it merely speeds up cell replication. I use Rootone.

The ONE time I experimented with leaving my root cuts untreated the tree got Verticillium and died. The oospore no doubt entered through the unsealed wounds below the soil surface.
-Jay