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Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine

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marcus watts
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Chiang Cheng Kooi
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Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:59 pm

Hi! i am trying to grow black pine in Tropical Malaysia, My aim is shohin bonsai as i live in a flats.
Got this imported black pine from taiwan about 20 months ago,
Initialy tought of twin trunk styling. 6 month after after styling decided to exposed the roots, to my horrow the roots are very one sided.
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Twin_t10

Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Root10

So decided to restyle it slanting,
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Pine_s10

Then last month restyle it semi cascade to make it look more compact.
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Cascad11
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Post  JimLewis Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:55 pm

You say you live i a flat. Does that mean you are trying to keep this inside?

These will NOT live indoors.

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Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:36 am

Mr Jim Lewis, Thanks for your concern, i put them beside the window receiving sunlight from 8.00am until 12.30 pm daily thru out the whole year, in the tropical region sunrise and sunset does not varies much thru out the year. My concern is if they need a dormancy period, which i ask in another post and was given some reassurance by a member whom grow the tree in tropical area too. His comment from his experience is the black pine can live in the tropical climate.
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Post  fiona Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:05 am

Jim asked if you keep this tree indoors and it looks like you are saying yes you do.

I have just read your previous post but you didn't say in it that about keeping the tree indoors - all that was mentioned was a 'tropical climate'. I suspect the people who answered you in the thread were assuming the tree was outdoors and gave their answer on the basis that it would be outdoors.

I agree with Jim that the tree will not thrive indoors all the time. Do you have a balcony or broad window ledge you could put it on so that it is outside?

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Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:04 am

Yes Fiona, i kept my trees in the house, but i would not say it is indoor 100%, becoz my trees are expose to direct sun light for about 4 hours everyday even they are put near the open window of 3 feet x 2 feet of a non cool aircondition room. So it is just the same as you put the tree somewhere outdoor with the same amount of exposure to sunlight. So far i manage to keep them alive for about 20 months.
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Window10To give an idea this where i put the tree, but i will rotate this tree every day so all the part got even exposure.[left]
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Post  fiona Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:47 pm

Hmmm. I'm sorry, but IMHO your tree is to all intents and purposes being grown indoors. In general terms, being at a window even if it's wide open is simply just not the same as being outdoors. Okay so it gets 4 hours a day of some respite in the form of sunlight through an open window, but it is still getting all the disadvantages of an indoor location all the time. Those will surely outweigh any good being done by the 4hours. IMHO I'd say you have been lucky in getting a black pine to stay alive in these conditions - maybe because the one in the picture is a young plant.

It's the age-old problem of trying to grow a tree that is not in its natural environment. I will leave it to those who actually live in your climate to make the final call as to growing a black pine predominantly indoors, but if it was me, I'd be trying to find a way to keep this tree outdoors all the time - a window ledge, a friend or relative nearbywith a garden.

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Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:01 pm

Fiona, thanks you very much for your opinon, i know i am fighting the odd trying to grow black pine indoor in a tropical climate. Wish me luck. A few acquaintance of mine are not sucessful because they are ignorance about the pine needs. Even my trees are young (about 2 years old) it gave me endless plesure of looking at them, just simply enchanted by pine.
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Post  fiona Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:06 pm

Good Luck. Laughing

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Post  JimLewis Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:54 pm

Yes. I'm quite sure you are going to need it.

I might point out that keeping a tree "alive" is different from keeping it "healthy" or "thriving".

Your pine should get a full day's worth of sunlight -- even tropical sunlight. Your pine will also need a long period of colder weather. It may limp along for several years, but without this dormancy period that "several years" will not equal a long vigorous life.

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Post  marcus watts Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:50 pm

i disagree that your pine is just limping along as the needle colour is good, the growth is compact and it is looking better now than 20 months ago. i know many bonsai people that keep the bulk of their trees in greenhouses, poly tunnels and perspex rooved buildings all the time, very often shaded with netting too, these trees are for all purposes indoors year after year and recieving filtered light.

it is also completly unproven that black pines need to go dormant as there was a recent thread of pines 8 years old from seed that had recieved no traditional winters and they were doing very well, some were large, some producing cones and all looked very healthy. Some forward thinking growers are extending their black pine growing season quite substancially using artificial lighting too, keeping dormancy at bay so the 2nd and even 3rd flush of buds produce needles in the same year - and these are some very nice show quality trees getting this treatment, but i think that may be a little secret atm ! Wink

well done for trying a tree not usually tried by people living with no outdoor area to keep it and good luck. keep up the correct pruning, feed it well and you should carry on improving the tree more

regards Marcus
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Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:27 am

Thanks to all the sincere advice, following are my other two black pines which I stared the same time. I think my pines are from the tropical Taiwan variety which I hope can thrive in tropical Malaysia even it is hotter here.

Informal Upright
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Inform11
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Inform12
Candles appearing 2nd season
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine 20111110

Bankan
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Before10
I twisted the trunk, the 3nd branch on the right was twisted to the left to become the 2nd branch on the right ( after that the 1st branch on the right was cut off)

Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Moyogi18
The ruler is 6 inches long
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine 6_inch10
The nebari
Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Nebari10
Visited the nursery that I bought the pine, there are still some stock left, their pine still look healthy. I think this is because they grow their tree under a canopy which filter and disperse the very intense tropical light beside the canopy also shield the tree from the more than 80 inches of annual rain fall here in Malaysia. However there is another nursery which just left their pine in the open, their pine trees look sickly, with yellow needle and dying.

A few acquaintances of mine try to grow black pine too, but most of the pine dies off. They just use the normal nursery soil here and are not paying attention to the very good drainage that the pine need, heavy rainfall is a problem for pine here.
I think one had to do a lot of reading of growing pine n of coz a few trail and deadly error, I do admit I kill a handful of pine when I was more ignorant of pine needs.
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Post  Spidercrab Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:49 pm

Why not use the heavy wire as part of the anchor system for the tree.At the moment it looks as though it is doing very little by way of design.If you dont have a balcony or garden area you will loose this tree.

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Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:14 am

Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Img_4410
It been about 5 years i had this pine in tropical Malaysia, I suppose black pine can live in the tropical region. This is the same tree as was first posted in this post
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Post  Khaimraj Seepersad Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:29 am

Yes, Chiang,

my eldest from Seed [ gift from Japan ] is now 28 years old.
Soil is just 5 mm gravel and aged compost. 90 % silica gravel and 10 % aged compost by volume [ small shovel ]
The pot is concrete and porous, also I use earthenware clay pots.

I am still learning how to make the needles smaller.
However the trees are lush and healthy, in full sun.

With information from AusBonsai, I now grow J.B.pines from cuttings.

Good luck with your pine.
Until.
Khaimraj
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Post  Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:58 am

well - this will blow my cover as an undercover moderator operator, but i am going to scoot this post over to the "members trees" section...

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Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Aac_ro11
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Post  Khaimraj Seepersad Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:48 pm

Congrats Kevin cheers cheers cheers affraid
Laters.
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Post  Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:14 am

Laughing Razz Wink

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Post  LanceMac10 Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:16 pm

Curious to know if you plan on addressing the needle size you have here? Their excessive length makes for a sloppy presentation.
Reducing their length and applying some wire to your branching would go a long way in sorting the image and perhaps allow for some back-budding. Allowing you to condense the image.
The increased light and airflow will help with the tree's vigor......and it will look much better as an added benefit.

I believe there is a very interesting tree buried within......time to "dig" for the treasure!!!!!


That said, drink a couple beers and enjoy yourself! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!
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Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:54 am

Lance

Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Img_4310

Style, restyle and restyle Black Pine Img_4311



Thanks for the advice and comment, i got a few pine some the needle are naturally longer some are shot. i do not have much choice as black pine are rare to by in my country.I have nobody to guide other from the internet and Internet Bonsai Club. I have very little idea how to reduce the needle yet but at the moment i letting the tree to developed ticker trunk. i prune long candle to make it compact. Pine grow at very slow rate, as i stay in an flats i cannot plum it on the ground. i suppose i need another 5 years to develope.

I do got a pine with shorter needle as the pic above.
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