giving credit to "artists"

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:28 am

Hi IBC.

Owning a tree as in a collector owning a bonsai is different from an "artist" creating while owning a tree. there is a thread here of bidbabol, and daviet asking in the same spirit of inquiry, which may appear hostile to the owner of the tree. to avoid a possible blood bath on bigbabol's tree thread I ask this questions.
Do a collector have the moral responsibility to give credit to the artists to made the tree and for how long?. although bonsai is an art, it is an ever evolving piece. most of the time a collector even asked some other people to do the bonsai chores for him/her and if a bonsai would join a show/exhibit/contest non of the credits would be given to the artist. people even buy well and superb trees from China/ Taiwan or Japan and entered the trees in its current form to shows as if they created the tree...and IMHO it is morally wrong and unfair if it is a competition.

In painting and even in sculpture the artist name were likely to be found in the art piece itself and in musical composition the composer's name would also be given credit.

I too buy a bonsai in it's first or second stage of development and I tried to give credit to the previous artist/s who did the first stage of the design, and my personal demarcation line on this is that, as long as the tree is still in its original form based on the previous artist/s design...I cannot consider the tree to be my mine.

Your opinion would be appreciated.

regards,
jun

Smile

Peter E. Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:59 am

jun wrote:Hi IBC.

Owning a tree as in a collector as long as the tree is still in its original form based on the previous artist/s design...I cannot consider the tree to be my mine.

Your opinion would be appreciated.

regards,
jun

I have to agree with this staement.
I have only bought 3 trees but have had to make them my design to keep them in my collection.

Todd Ellis Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:06 am

Hi Jun, I'm glad you ask this question.
I try give credit to the artist by reporting the tree's history as accurately as I can.
If someone grows stock material in the ground and performs some basic pruning to create "potensai" should they get credit for any artistic endeavor? Or credit for just growing good stock material. I have bought a few trees which were nice and did alot of re-shaping and cleaning of roots, bark, pruning excess branches, etc and consider my work important enough to receive some credit. Since bonsai is a changing-art, everyone involved in the design and growing,or collecting, must receive some credit for their efforts.
Keeping in mind that we are "only custodians" of our trees, how much does it matter?

With regards to "owners" of trees getting the credit. I am not Japanese and cannot fully appreciate what it means to be Japanese. The owners who get the prizes at the big shows...that is something only the Japanese can fully appreciate. It doesn't seem fair at times, but what do I know? That is not my culture.

We who grow bonsai know, first hand, know that bonsai can only survive if they are cared for properly. Without proper care, the tree dies, period. The owners of the treasured masterpieces give credit to their tree's caretaker via monetary compensation and other means.

This phenominon of the "owners getting the credit" is not unique to bonsai. Horse shows, Dog shows, car show, racing, etc. are supported by others who have the money to fund the enterprises. Who gets the credit? The entreprenuers get the credit. The old saying "...follow the money..." (BTW you can't follow the money to me because I don't have any money. Razz

)

There are artists, there are art supporters, investors, philanthropists, groupies, novices, intermediates, advanced artists, experts, nameless ones, famous ones, and all of us in between.

When it comes down to it, IMHO, Mother Nature should get most of the credit for our collected masterpieces. And the ironic thing is ...she doesn't care about the aesthetics... or the art... Idea

(I wonder if this thread should be moved to "off topic banter"?)

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:09 am

Hello Jun. Given that a bonsai is always growing and developing, any comparison with a painting or sculpture is invalid in my opinion. You wouldn't spend a shed load of money on a Van Gogh and get your oils out for a well considered touch up?
I understand your frustration with enthusiasts purchasing fantastic bonsai, and entering an exhibition under their own name and winning. This my friend is an unavoidable fact of life. I love to show my trees, but I know damn well that I will never win. Being selected, meeting new and old friends and knowing that the tree is all my own work is enough for me. I have never bought someone elses treee without seeing a radical change in the design and would not buy a tree that needed nothing done to it. This is not possible anyway.

**JimLewis** Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:23 am

Since I've never bought a finished "bonsai" and only three or four semi-developed pre-bonsai over 40 some years, I probably shouldn't answer this, but . . . as long as you don't change the design and only do maintenance on it, I'd think the original creator should get the credit.

If you rework the tree extensively, you can begin to take some credit for it.

jrodriguez Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:40 am

Jun,

In Taiwan, among the most important bonsai shows are the Taiwan Bonsai Creators Exhibition and the Hwa Fong (whispering winds). In these shows, there are distinct differences. For example, in TBCA, the professionals display their work. In Hwa Fong, which is held a couple of months after, the professional might be the ones to show the trees, but it is mostly done by the current owner. In both cases, only the tree is important an taken into account during the judging procedure.

To me, it doesn't matter who created the tree, as long as it is kept in good shape, health and overall vigor. The presence of excellent trees in shows promotes the development of the art. As Lord Buddha said, with failure comes opportunity. One should only work harder and learn better technique if you wish to achieve good bonsai.

I believe some of the arguments and sentiment that go along with this topic are very similar to those presented on a recen thread (Yamadori, the unfair advantage).

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

Orion Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:41 am

It may be good practice to, at the very least, keep record of previous artists. For one reason, it acknowledges their work. Another reason is that you never know what the status may be of that person at a later date. Besides, it catagorizes lineage and, who knows, it could be of benefit at a later time.

Ravi Kiran Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:00 am

Hi, While I have a lot to say on this topic, however what came to mind was a wonderful post made by Will Valvanis on a similar topic about the same time last year which I quote

William N. Valavanis wrote:
The purpose of the 2nd US National Bonsai Exhibition is the same as the First, to exhibit some of the finest-quality bonsai in the United States and to appreciate them for their individual beauty. This exhibition is patterned similar to the Kokufu Bonsai Ten (National Bonsai Exhibition) in Tokyo which just opened its doors. There the bonsai are displayed by the owner's name, not the artist who created them. And, I'm sure you know very well that it is very rare that a bonsai masterpiece has only one artist. Usually the last person who handled the bonsai receives all the accolades and the people who risked their lives to collect the trees, the people who cared for it and established it, and others who may have done some preliminary training do not. Only the last person who does something to it becomes "famous".

Many of the famous "Japanese" bonsai (Chinese quince, Korean Hornbeam, Pomegranate), often displayed in Kokufu ten were imported from Korea, China, Taiwan, etc. I've had the pleasure and educational opportunity to have attended and studied the beautiful bonsai at over 25 Kokufu ten exhibitions, and I've never seen different divisions, nor have I seen even mention that the tree was imported. Here they place the importance on the beauty. The same goes for the descriptive information in the commemorative exhibition albums.

Westerners are often too concerned about receiving credit for their work and pick away at masterpiece bonsai on display, trying to find its faults. And, by that time, they have forgotten to appreciate the beauty of the very bonsai they are looking at.

To many of the wealthy bonsai collectors in Japan it's kind of "pissing contest" to see who has the best or the most expensive bonsai, container, display table or suiseki. Yes, some of them only want the coveted "Kokufu Prize" because if the BONSAI, not the artist or the owner receives the prize it is often worth more when resold, and they are sold all the time, that's how the professional bonsai artists stay alive. I mentioned "often" are worth more, because when a bonsai receives the Kokufu prize, it cannot receive it again, therefore it's not available for competition.

Take a look at Robert Barons web site on Kokufu ten for the most comprehensive information on the exhibition:

http://phoenixbonsai.com/Days/Kokufuten.html

Over 30 years ago I was on Shikoku Island a grower showed me a photo of a prize winning famous bonsai from Tokyo and was complaining to me because he collected the tree from the mountains decades ago, established its vigor and trained it into a beautiful masterpiece. Then a famous Omiya Bonsai Village artist came, purchased the tree, planted it on a flat artificial stone and suddenly the tree became an Omiya masterpiece created by the new owner, probably by then the tree had been sold.

Do you think Mr. Kimura collected all the masterpiece bonsai he is famous for? No, of course not, but he gets all the credit. (I'm not picking on Mr. Kimura, only using him as an example because he is well known).

In Japan the professional bonsai artists have their own exhibition Nippon Bonsai Sakufu ten (Japan Bonsai Creator's Exhibition) and here the bonsai are displayed with the latest artist's name. Not the owner. Many of the prize winning bonsai in this exhibition are NOT owned by the people who own them. Just like the bonsai at Kokufu ten are not displayed using the artist's names. It is very common to have one bonsai displayed in the Sakufu ten and then have it displayed in the Kokufu ten shows with different names and the two shows are only a month or two apart. The Japanese have their bonsai on display to show their beauty. Of course most of the Japanese artists knows who "created" the masterpiece, but it's the tree that gets the award.

I remember once I saw a photo of a bonsai in a September auction album and then it was exhibited in the Sakufu ten exhibition in January under a different name and the only thing changed was that the artist took the tree out of the pot and planted it in a curved artificial rock. And, in order to sell the exhibition book in January, the trees were judged and photographed in October, only one month since the tree was sold at auction...

I personally find it difficult to understand how the bonsai are selected "judged" for entry to Kokufu ten when some of the bonsai have been owned and shaped by several of the people who were judging them. Remember a bonsai masterpiece is not normally created by one individual artist.

I have made it very clear right from the beginning of the US National Bonsai Exhibitions that the beauty of the individual bonsai is the important factor, not artist, origin, age, history or container. Did you know that a few well known American bonsai artists submitted bonsai for the First US National Bonsai Exhibition and even brought trees to the show, but were not allowed to display? Quality, is the important factor here and will be again this year.

None of the prize winning bonsai from the First US National Bonsai Exhibition were imported, by the way. No, wait a minute, the shohin bonsai were trained from imported plants. The other prize winning bonsai (not the artists) were collected or trained from nursery stock by artists. Not all the bonsai in the exhibition were trained by their owners. The exhibition is not about the individual artists, it's the bonsai which are important and which are being evaluated. Every bonsai in the First US National Bonsai Exhibition was evaluated by the three international judges. Why? In order to offer the owner the thoughts of the judges.

I hope people understand my thoughts of this evening and more important please consider submitting a photo for the selection process for the 2nd US National Bonsai Exhibition. It's going to be a great show and will offer friendly bonsai fellowship.

If people don't have a quality bonsai ready for display, the National Bonsai Exhibition will, perhaps provide the stimulus for improving their bonsai for future display. Everyone is welcome to come to the June exhibition to appreciate fine bonsai and enjoy the friendly fellowship. I personally look forward to welcoming you all.

by William N. Valavanis

The very interesting post can be found at
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2266-american-s-bonsai-display-at-kokufu-bonsai-ten-exhibition#22159

I guess Will said much more than what I had wanted to say... So I'd side step for now and let Will's wisdom sink in.

Will,
I'll not forget this post....

Regards
Ravi

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:11 am

will baddeley wrote:Hello Jun. Given that a bonsai is always growing and developing, any comparison with a painting or sculpture is invalid in my opinion. You wouldn't spend a shed load of money on a Van Gogh and get your oils out for a well considered touch up?
I understand your frustration with enthusiasts purchasing fantastic bonsai, and entering an exhibition under their own name and winning. This my friend is an unavoidable fact of life. I love to show my trees, but I know damn well that I will never win. Being selected, meeting new and old friends and knowing that the tree is all my own work is enough for me. I have never bought someone elses treee without seeing a radical change in the design and would not buy a tree that needed nothing done to it. This is not possible anyway.

My words, if the haven't been written by Will Very Happy

And the post of W. Valavanis explains the overall issue very well.
I am not in this for winning, but I am of course happy if a prize is given to my bonsai/display. But the purpose of bonsai for me is the exploration of bonsai, and especially after some years of training (both me and my bonsai) I have great pleasure in learning much more about the way of displaying bonsai.
For me the beauty of bonsai is the newer ending learning experience. I would not find pleasure in buying already trained "masterpieces" because my pleasure in bonsai is much about working with my trees. I will make shortcuts buying semi-trained raw material to avoid waiting until I am 70 years old to begin styling a tree, but like Will I want to make the tree my own by working on it from a pretty basic structure.
This told, I do not reject the way it is done by others buying a masterpiece and taking a prize. For me it is the beauty of the tree that counts much more than the owner. We each enjoy bonsai our own ways. Some collects others work, some trains for others, some do it all and for their own pleasure. Regardless what way you go, just enjoy it.

Best regards
Morten Albek

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:58 am

For those who wanted to see the full story (W. valavanis as quoted) including the other side of the coin and some other views without being selective of just one side. please visit the "announcement section"-titled AMERICAN BONSAI DISPLAY AT KOKUFU BONSAI TEN EXHIBITION.
here is the gist of that story- its about a tree addressed as an "AMERICAN" tree that is not an american because its was made and cultured in japan, and the design is not even American,,by the way, is there such an American design that can be truly called American? just asking, no offense meant... and like I said before, it is misleading people in shows specially to those who has no background knowledge on the displayed tree and doesn't even know where the heck that particular tree came from... This is a reflection of what is going on all over the world... some dude with a very deep pocket can buy the most expensive tree available in the market and put it in display without naming it as such or informing the viewing public of its maker...and this rich dude will just keep doing so for a very long time as long as he can afford it...
IMPACT of that practice:
1.people will eventually have a conceived a notion that this rich dude is a very well "talented bonsai artist".
2.This practice of buying and displaying tree without addressing it as imported or as work by other true bonsai artist will not promote bonsai as contrary to the perception of many, because more rich people will just buy the best imported trees and put it in display and the imported tree in particular will be praised for its perfection. new aspiring bonsai artists will just copy the imported design by a foreign artist and the cycle will continue for eternity...instead of creating something suitable for their local environment and local species. this is the reason why so many Phempis acidula appears to be trees from japan. Then, how on earth can we advanced the individual design for its region, if we keep on copying the perfect imported trees. a japanese artist surely have a different inspiration from an american artist, and both should a different approach on design. forest in Europe is very much different than forest in the tropics, why is it most of the time they appear to be similar when forest planting appears in a pot.
3.Without informing the public of the designer/artist name, It will promote further confusion and mixed up regional of designs.

Most of the time people are saying that it is more the often about the trees and less about the man who created the tree. This is basically true but mostly false...
Let's say you have a small time local bonsai club show in your small town. then one truly magnificent tree was displayed on one of the table. then the owner of the tree appears, a bearded man from indonisia-let say Robert steven or a Caucasian man perhaps,- let say Walter Pall. Do you think the reaction would be the same if the one who appears owning/createad the same tree is just a regular bonsaist from a nearby town... Can we say still that it is all about the tree?

What harm would it bring us all if the name or origin of the little plant in a little pot would have the name of the little poor artist/s printed even with the little font possible be displayed at the bottom of the ID tag.

Maybe my level of respect to my fellow bonsaists or fellow bonsai creator is different from some people, so forgive my childish ignorance. I simply respect the bonsai artists who created the tree and admire the piece as well...not just admire the tree...then period, next tree please!

regards,
jun Smile

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:33 am

I assume when the speak is about bonsai,and the problem, about only to maintain other peoples work, and take the credit.,
the speak must be about large/really large old bonsai....

On my first trip to Japan 10 years ago, I wanted to bring back a very nice bonsai/shohin as a memory, as I did not expect to go back to Japan ever again...it was expensive.

After two years, I found, it had to be restyled, as it was not possible to just maintain the tiny tree as it was....I removed at least the half portion of the branches, and chanced the style a bit.
I found a future design, and I could continue my work ....only the trunk was left untouched.

I now allow my self to see it as my tree... I went buying good shohin... but after all, it turned out to be a hunt, for a good old trunk, in a japanese bonsaishop. I compare it, with yamadorihunt in the nature, where mother nature is the artist, and not a japanese bonsaiartist/worker.

Kind regards Yvonne

Khaimraj Seepersad Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:45 am

Jun,

here is the fly in the oinment bit again.

Firstly, Artists have to go to school to get the title - Artist - it is a profession like Engineer, Lawyer, Doctor and so. It just fell through that legal hole, but before 1800, there were laws to prevent anyone from just setting up shop as an Artist.[ see 1500's English laws.]

Secondly, one may have artistic tendencies, but that does not make one an artist. As it is often said to some folk -------- you have a bit of the artist in you.

It used to be that Penjing was called Garden Craft, which is how I use it.

Frankly I see nothing wrong with something being a craft.

Thirdly, as Bonsai / Penjing goes, who cares who owned it and who wins the prizes. As long as it is healthy and remains thus.

This leads me to ask, why did x get into Bonsai or Penjing, for Notoriety, Business or some, at times hidden agenda?
Or did they get into it as part of the practice of the scholar's table or a hobby or just a way to kill free time ?
Until.
Khaimraj bzzzzzzzzzzz

* If you need some form of recognition or accomplishment or achievement to smooth the passage of time as you age. The idea being that you can look back on your life with the confidence of having done something of importance to you or the world. Take up the more traditional forms of Art or Charitable situations -- e.g. Painting, Stone /Wood/Metal Sculpture, Writing, Poetry or become a Mother Teresa.

Rob Kempinski Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:51 am

Bonsai is a tree. A bonsai display displays a tree. The tree should get the credit. It does all the hard work of day in and day out growing.

Khaimraj Seepersad Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:56 am

Bonsai is a business in Japan. It is a profession, folk get paid to tend trees, and supply them. Whoever does well in competitions, stands a greater chance of permanent employment.

If Bonsai in Trinidad offered employment and business, it would survive the next 30 years. As it is, bonsai may fade away down here.

Hence my idea about getting a Bonsai Museum built. Offers employment.
Khaimraj

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:57 am

A very good point Yvonne.
Khaimraj. Artists have to go to school to be an call themselves an artist? At what point of scholarship would you be able to call yourself an artist, A level, Diploma or Doctorate? I think L.S. Lowrie may disagree with your statement. Creativity makes you an artist. Not a bit of paper.
I think this thread is about artistic and personal integrity.

Khaimraj Seepersad Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:01 pm

Will,

if you studied the lives of the Old Masters, you would perhaps appreciate my point.

All humans can be taught to draw or paint well, and thus all humans with normal functioning brains can be artists, will they choose to ?

Creativity is a part of being human, probably part of any organisms function, be it lion, monkey or amoeba.
Until.
Khaimraj

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:58 pm

Khaimraj. If you feel the need to go off at a tangent then start another thread. This one is about the original or subsequent, artist/ creator getting recognition for his work.

**John Quinn** Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:59 pm

From Bill Valavanis' comments:
Westerners are often too concerned about receiving credit for their work and pick away at masterpiece bonsai on display, trying to find its faults. And, by that time, they have forgotten to appreciate the beauty of the very bonsai they are looking at.

I have made it very clear right from the beginning of the US National Bonsai Exhibitions that the beauty of the individual bonsai is the important factor, not artist, origin, age, history or container.

In my opinion, the tree should be the focus of the display, not the collector, original artist, subsequent artists, etc. Of course, it would be improper to deceive when questioned regarding the history of the tree. If you have that much need for personal recognition, enter a beauty contest.

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:08 pm

John Quinn wrote:From Bill Valavanis' comments:
Westerners are often too concerned about receiving credit for their work and pick away at masterpiece bonsai on display, trying to find its faults. And, by that time, they have forgotten to appreciate the beauty of the very bonsai they are looking at.

I have made it very clear right from the beginning of the US National Bonsai Exhibitions that the beauty of the individual bonsai is the important factor, not artist, origin, age, history or container.

Orion Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:25 pm

jun wrote:
Most of the time people are saying that it is more the often about the trees and less about the man who created the tree. This is basically true but mostly false...
Let's say you have a small time local bonsai club show in your small town. then one truly magnificent tree was displayed on one of the table. then the owner of the tree appears, a bearded man from indonisia-let say Robert steven or a Caucasian man perhaps,- let say Walter Pall. Do you think the reaction would be the same if the one who appears owning/createad the same tree is just a regular bonsaist from a nearby town... Can we say still that it is all about the tree?

What harm would it bring us all if the name or origin of the little plant in a little pot would have the name of the little poor artist/s printed even with the little font possible be displayed at the bottom of the ID tag.

Maybe my level of respect to my fellow bonsaists or fellow bonsai creator is different from some people, so forgive my childish ignorance. I simply respect the bonsai artists who created the tree and admire the piece as well...not just admire the tree...then period, next tree please!

regards,
jun

Very well said, I couldn't agree more.

**JimLewis** Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:01 pm

Can we say still that it is all about the tree?

We can danged well hope!

Let's not allow the cult of personality to infest bonsai too.

**fiona** Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:03 pm

From Jun: "What harm would it bring us all if the name or origin of the little plant in a little pot would have the name of the little poor artist/s printed even with the little font possible be displayed at the bottom of the ID tag.

Maybe my level of respect to my fellow bonsaists or fellow bonsai creator is different from some people, so forgive my childish ignorance. I simply respect the bonsai artists who created the tree and admire the piece as well...not just admire the tree...then period, next tree please!"

To what extent are we to take this then, Jun? Should I be insisting that all the trees I have created and subsequently sold on should be so acknowledged by their current owners? I wouldn't be so arrogant. This is mostly because while I may have been the original artist, I recognise that some of the trees I "created" were of inferior quality - almost practice trees - and were bought by their current owners only because they were better than the ones they had themselves.

Or are we only interested in the trees produced by the "masters"? If that is the case, the terms "little poor" doesn't really seem appropriate. Several comments arise from that quite apart from those already raised about the tree being the exhibit:

first, most of the bonsai artists I know who have sold trees do not seem to be hung up on this issue at all and seem quite accepting of the fact that the tree will subsequently be displayed under someone else's name,

second, just as we can recognise a Picasso from a Monet, most of us who attend bonsai exhibitions develop the skill of recognising certain artists' work and this then becomes a talking point (not accusatory but discussive) with the owner if he (or indeed she, as female input to bonsai seems not to be a consideration in this thread to date) is present,

and third, if some of the original artists are precious about being credited with the tree after it has moved on to another owner, why did they sell it in the first place?

Andrija Zokic Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:30 pm

will baddeley wrote:Artists have to go to school to be an call themselves an artist? At what point of scholarship would you be able to call yourself an artist, A level, Diploma or Doctorate? I think L.S. Lowrie may disagree with your statement. Creativity makes you an artist. Not a bit of paper.

Definitely!

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:18 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Can we say still that it is all about the tree?

We can danged well hope!

Let's not allow the cult of personality to infest bonsai too.

PRECISELY Jim!

...one of the points I'm trying to raise from the beginning of this thread. But I don't know how to say it in a polite way without offending several very few little number of "masters" out there.
there are lot of people around the globe even in this forum alone(not me), who are doing pretty good with their bonsai works. Some may even surpass the works of some of those known "masters" but they were not recognized for their work. because we knew only a few hundred pieces of nice trees done by "masters"...if it's their work (it must be good) most people tends to just appreciate it as masterpiece and without much scrutiny.
back to the name tag with the artists name on it- If the names of this talented artists were to be associated with their own works, even the rich dude with deep pocket bought his tree and displayed it in shows even to a foreign land, the rich dude can get all the trophies he wants,,,but that artist will slowly get recognition for his work. I'm sure it will encourage more talented people to strive more, and we can now justify the statement that EXHIBITING IMPORTED TREE or TREES DONE by others can promote something good for bonsai as a whole.

regards,
jun

Guest Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:34 pm

John Quinn wrote:From Bill Valavanis' comments:
Westerners are often too concerned about receiving credit for their work and pick away at masterpiece bonsai on display, trying to find its faults. And, by that time, they have forgotten to appreciate the beauty of the very bonsai they are looking at.

I have made it very clear right from the beginning of the US National Bonsai Exhibitions that the beauty of the individual bonsai is the important factor, not artist, origin, age, history or container.

In my opinion, the tree should be the focus of the display, not the collector, original artist, subsequent artists, etc. Of course, it would be improper to deceive when questioned regarding the history of the tree. If you have that much need for personal recognition, enter a beauty contest.

...Totally disagree John. because most of the time the trees displayed magnificently were easily recognized if it came from the collection of well known collector or a display from the works of recognized bonsaists, and biased opinions are always at the back of most people mind if the owner of the displayed tree is owned by known people in bonsai.
If somebody recognized the tree as a collection from a famous guy...the next thing that comes to his mind is...is that famous guy around here in the exhibit hall somewhere? need a chitchat with him...the other trees can wait.

regards,
jun Smile

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