Prices to consult #2: Chrysanthemum Stones

An excellent resource! Thank you for posting the link http://www.j-bonsai.com/index.html- Suiseki collection

The stone next to the bottom of the page that belonged to the Tokugawa shogunate costs $13,235 or £8,560 Yikes! Glad I'm not a chrysanthemum stone collector.

Kev's noted the chrysanthemum stone stated by the vendor as "once possesed by the Tokugawa shogunate." I think it is exceedingly rare and a bargain if I understand the words "possessed by the Tokugawa shogunate" correctly. It might be more clear after Tom Elias's soon to be published book appears. From lectures by Tom as well as material from him in California Aiseki Kai news and on NBF's website, a collector first discovered chrysanthemum stones in sufficient quantity to identify them in the late 19th century. I think he gave some to the Imperial family & associates, which greatly increased the stone's value to others when accepted into elite collections. This would be AFTER the shogunate ended.

Not every chrysanthemum pattern stone is from Neodani, but the pattern is largely known in Japan from the many stones sourced from there.

Could the emperor himself or a member of his family have owned this stone or a right to any stone collected from the area. Newly collected Furuya-ishi stones were at one time subject to being distributed only by the shogunate.

The vendors of this stone are folks I trust implicitly, so this stone is incredibly rare & valuable. Perhaps, it is described in a manner that I'm not quite grasping. There is more to learn.

Hi friends , Korean chrysanthemum stone
http://haeinstone.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=BlogPart&partqs=cat%3Dflowerstone

Hi frends , Chrysanthemum stone - Japan , China,Taiwan.
http://www.jogyeong.net/read.cgi?board=board&y_number=5&nnew=1

this stone very much in korea why I don't see your stone (VU)

Hi friends , Korean chrysanthemum stone
more informations,
http://stone.buddhism.org/kr/suseok/shop/read.cgi?board=board&y_number=58

Hi Ngoquangvu... I've looked at the webswites you've posted. Anybody can use a search engine & locate websites, but this is a discussion group and websites should only be linked when illustrating (in text or pictures) specific discussion points. The forum isn't the place to advertise websites. We've had this discussion before. I do not doubt that you wish to expose others to the full range of chrysantemum stones and that is commendable, but it is not enough to qualify as discussion to create a URL list.

The last site was offensive to me posting material broadly known as from Frank English, changing it very sjlightly though also using Frank's photos and not giving credit at all. While you are not responsible for insincere people stealing the efforts of others, enthusiast shouldn't be misled.

The opinion that harder stones are more valuable than softer stones so that Korean flower stones (mums) are more valuable (explicitly expressed by the Korean stone dealer) than others seems poorly conceived. The harder stones are simply harder, which is a difference that is not particularly related to quality. At their hardest, most stones will be cleaved &/or polished to give their best appearance. Where the chrysanthemum petal in very hard crystalline (perhaps quartz?) form stands proud above the surface of a matrix which has worn down, most suiseki enthusiasts would consider it more valuable. Additionally, if following this dealer's impression of hardest stones being best, you would have to credit a few California chrysanthemum stones in jadeite (vs. the nephrite jade's softer matrix which the vendor noted as softer than Korean stones) as more valuable than the Korean stones.

All discussion that isn't misleading is welcomed, here. I am very disillusioned when a contributor posts information or links to websites that misinform. When that happens, the Internet Bonsai Club is pulled down to their level in its discussion.

Every enthusiast who collects for himself likes his own region's stones, and collectors often believe their local stones as as best-in-the-world. Local stones are often accessible & most areas have stones which are exceptional in expression. I like the Korean stones & think that Korean aesthetics are essential for cultural understanding of stones. We should be talking of stone meaning and expression as well as sharing members stones. You definitely contribute to encouraging others to share stones, Ngoquangvu, so I hope you'll continue.

I hope you will also discuss stones without simply identifying/advertising websites. Websites should be discouraged where owners "borrow"/steal data or change it slightly to suggest that they have authored it. Frank English's "What is suiseki?" was stolen by the person linking his article on the Korean page you've noted. It then links back to a Korean stone vendor website with no credit to Frank English. Soon, original authors are lost to those who wish to understand stone appreciation. In this case, the article was also modified to say things Frank did not publish in the original (e.g., even an addition re' preference for island stones appeared as an integral part of the article).