Indoor light

Would love to hear people opinion on this topic. I have a choice between light sources,
1) plant and aquarium tubes,
2) home and office tubes, these put out about 30% more lumens than #1 and,
3) a sunny window sill, of course

At the moment i'm using all 3 in different situations. But im just curious what everyone thinks, mainly between the two tubes for the next time i replace them. Hope everyone is enjoying spring! I still have a 3 feet of snow in my garden

Not just the lumen, but more importantly, the color specs are equally important. You are looking for blue and reds.
I would guestimate the plant lights are going to be better.

Solid southern facing windows with lots of sun.. Can't compete with that I would guess..

Thanks leatherback, i imagined that they had less output for a reason.

Lots of 'it depends' in that question. Types of plants, casual or serious, money. There's lots out there above my pay grade, but it was fairly painless to go to T5 fluorescents in 6500K range. The new LED systems coming out might put that to shame with similar expenditure, but I haven't looked into it lately.

Search 'lights' in this forum- plenty to read.

I have been growing plants under fluorescent lights for 54 years, bonsai about 25.
If you are setting up a new system, check out HID and LED. You may find them too expensive. Your best bet is probably the T5s. I am not familiar with them, since my 19-year-old setup is T12. However, the question of wavelength is the same. The intensity of a fluorescent tube is measured in Kelvins. The higher the Kelvin number, the brighter and closer to real sunlight. Forget the aquarium and "grow" lights. They are not for us. Look for "daylight" tubes, 6500 K.
Some bonsai do pretty well on a sunny windowsill, others may barely survive. Of course everybody goes outside for the summer. In both the windowsill and the light garden, you must consider temperature and humidity. Get a maximum-minimum thermometer and a humidity gauge.
Iris

I've learned more about florescent's in the last 5 minutes, than I have in all the time before. I have two T12 set ups, Ill keep an eye out for some "daylight" tubes next time i'm out. Sadly no kelvin rating on the packaging from the tubes I have now. There is one hydroponics store here so i'll have to see what they offer. I believe its mostly MH and HPS systems from them, and they are above my requirements and price point at the moment.

bonsaisr wrote:I have been growing plants under fluorescent lights for 54 years, bonsai about 25.
If you are setting up a new system, check out HID and LED. You may find them too expensive. Your best bet is probably the T5s. I am not familiar with them, since my 19-year-old setup is T12. However, the question of wavelength is the same. The intensity of a fluorescent tube is measured in Kelvins. The higher the Kelvin number, the brighter and closer to real sunlight. Forget the aquarium and "grow" lights. They are not for us. Look for "daylight" tubes, 6500 K.
Some bonsai do pretty well on a sunny windowsill, others may barely survive. Of course everybody goes outside for the summer. In both the windowsill and the light garden, you must consider temperature and humidity. Get a maximum-minimum thermometer and a humidity gauge.
Iris

This is great advice. Thanks, Iris.

Iris as you are the T12 sensei, im curious if you find these tubes suitable.




Also saw these guys there, they can be any of about 20 colors. wondering if anyone has tried anything similar

chadley999 wrote:I've learned more about florescent's in the last 5 minutes, than I have in all the time before. I have two T12 set ups, Ill keep an eye out for some "daylight" tubes next time i'm out. Sadly no kelvin rating on the packaging from the tubes I have now. There is one hydroponics store here so i'll have to see what they offer. I believe its mostly MH and HPS systems from them, and they are above my requirements and price point at the moment.

http://theaquaponicsource.com/how-to-aquaponics/indoor-aquaponics-grow-lights/

I found this interesting, and like they way it was tied together at the end with a comparative price expenditure over an eight year period.

The Philips Daylight are the same ones I use. Note down at the bottom it says 6500 K. However these are only 20 W. You have to use them if you are stuck with 2 foot fixtures, but 4 foot fixtures are more efficient.
I can't comment on the LED lights, but it says multicolor, not white. I suspect they are just for decoration.
Iris

Thanks Iris, that couldn't have worked out better.

I believe the intent of multicolor LED is to provide both vegetative and blooming wavelengths.

I have been using 4 - 24" T8 "cool white" bulbs over a chinese elm and about 5 schefflera's since last october (they are also near an eastern facing window) and they have been growing well. I do my best to keep the bulbs within about 1-3" of the top of the foliage, and they are on a timer so they get 16 hours of artificial light every day.

Next winter I am gong to move to 4' light fixtures just because I now have more plants and will have a bigger area to put them in. I may move to the T5 bulbs at this time as well. LED's are nice, but just seem to expensive for me right now... who knows, in 3 or 4 years, they may be a lot cheaper or even replaced by something better. Best of luck.

Just out of interest, why is Kelvin the unit of measurement? Kelvin to me is a measure of temperature. Learned a lot from this thread, thanks I'll need a small setup for the winter

AeroDan wrote:Just out of interest, why is Kelvin the unit of measurement? Kelvin to me is a measure of temperature.

Exactly. You notice on the package that was illustrated, it said Color Temperature 6500K. It relates to the color and heat of a flame and the rainbow. Look at a candle. The coolest flame is red. The hotter it gets the closer it is to white and blue. Remember the term "white hot." Of course our fluorescent tubes are all cool, but Kelvin is still use to measure the wavelengths of the light.
Iris

Thanks Iris thats really good to know! We use kelvin a lot at uni

I have used almost all types of lights there is for growing Bonsai and have to somewhat agree, lights in the higher Kelvin range is logically the better pick when it comes lights for indoor Bonsai, this since it will promote shorter internode spacing and smaller leafs thanks to the high amount of blue in the spectrum.

But i am not so sure if ~6500K, even if it works great really is the very best Kelvin temp for plants when using traditional light fixtures...

For example, i have seen my self and also heard other say that lower temp lights (~2700K) promote faster root-growth, faster fattening of branches, trunk and nebari witch is great! but it also promote bigger leafs and longer internode spacing witch we don't want...
So one can use a mix of lower and higher temp tubes to get the best of both worlds, ~6500K for tight growth and smaller leafs, and ~2700K for better root-growth and more, or a even better option is to use all ~4000K tubes, either of these 2 light setups may not get you the absolute smallest leafs possible compared to a all ~6500K setup, but IMO instead better overall growth, and it should also give you a little better CRI making the trees look even more green and lush.

Think it may be worth mentioning that even if ~4000K sound a long way from ~6500K, this is from what i remember the Kelvin temp of Metal halide lamps used by ex. Jerry Meislik and many other that grow top notch indoor Bonsai, so its proven.