Re: Continuation of the Continuation of Penjing or Saikei thread...New Pics.

**fiona** Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:42 pm

Since there were three threads which all related to the one display, I have now merged them so we get some idea of progression.

I think you are off to a decent start with this display, but would agree with Neli that the best landscape displays have a more developed sense of perspective and scale. But as Neli says, don't lose sense of the fun of it all, and landscapes are undoubtedly fun to put together.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:56 pm

for the sake of terminology, it seems like "landscape" planting would be one trying to show the "scape" of some "land", and would thus require proper scale to everything (near and far distant) within the created viewing area... while "tray" or "group" planting could be done with little regard to perspective and scale beyond the actual plants in the planting. (the planting in the green pot being the former and the one for your wife being the latter)

semantic gymnastics ?

or verbaciously viable ?

scratch

Colin Lewis Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:49 am

Chinese: Penjing
Japanese: Saikei
Vietnamese: Non hon bo
English: Tray landscape

Where's the confusion?

BTW: Bolero, if you love your tray landscape as much as I love my bonsai, you're doing okay.

Guest Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:25 am

Thank you Colin, appreciated and yes I love my little creations and hope someday to make the jump from Tray Landscape to Saikei...

from reading Toshio Kawamoto I have discerned that Saikei other than being a Landscape has to have the Bonsai trees looking as though they are Natural and not touched by human hands...

A quote from Toshio Kawamoto's book ...Saikei: Living Landscapes in Miniature

"A Saikei tree appears as if its form has been determined by the terrain and weather conditions of its natural location, rather than by the hand of its grower."

I know you already know this, I'm not lecturing just thinking outloud and re-affirming to myself why my Tray Landscape is a Tray Landscape and not yet a Saikei...

I was just yesterday out to UM's Matthai Botanical Gardens Bonsai display for the umpteenth time and am still amazed, impressed and awed at their Bonsai collection.

I have seen 10's of Thousands of Bonsai in my lifetime and I am still amazed when viewing a Classic Bonsai for the 1st time... the time, expertise, work, attention to detail is just mind boggling and leaves me with a very deep appreciation of a true Bonsai and its artistic grower.

Rambling now.....enough

Chuck

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:16 pm

Colin Lewis wrote:Chinese: Penjing
Japanese: Saikei
Vietnamese: Non hon bo
English: Tray landscape

Where's the confusion?

BTW: Bolero, if you love your tray landscape as much as I love my bonsai, you're doing okay.

for me, not being oriental is just the beginning of the confusion Wink

seriously though... you wouldnt consider the one for the wife's desk a tray landscape, would you ?

btw - good to see you this past weekend Colin and enjoyed chatting, brief musical discussion and watching you work...

Colin Lewis Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:24 pm

beer city snake wrote:
seriously though... you wouldnt consider the one for the wife's desk a tray landscape, would you ?

T'aint for me to say whether it is or it isn't. All I'm saying is that there's no need to use foreign terms if there are perfectly adequate English terms that mean the same thing.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:51 pm

right on, man... couldnt agree more.

DougB Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:02 pm

Colin I don't want to rain on your parade but many cultures speak English, and each is different. And particularly in the USA, where we are all immigrants much of the words we use are not or our own origin. I ran across this from a research study.

According to one research, the percentage of modern English words derived from each language group are as follows:
Latin (including words used only in scientific / medical / legal contexts): ~29%
French: ~29%
Germanic: ~26%
Others: ~16%

Just thought I would toss that into the mix.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:31 pm

yeah doug... and while i prefer and understand "english" it's easy to forget how young the USA actually is...

which, imho, makes our arrogance on the international stage a bit embarrassing Embarassed

but i digress Wink

**JimLewis** Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:10 pm

I'm with Cousin (???) Colin on this one. Few of us are Japanese. And while we practice a Sino-Nippon art form, we do it -- generally speaking, especially here -- in English.

We've had this debate many times, I know, but there generally are terms in English that, when used, require no explanation or translation.

If this were Bulgarian board, or South African, I suspect I'd be making the same argument.

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