Masakuni broken...

They have their own website Kaneshin Bonsai Tools...there's probably some on ebay or the like.

Brett Summers wrote:Hi Max
I had the chipped cutters in the other thread. I think a company that makes no effort to reply (there is easy online translators in any event) is not a company worth dealing with.
I won't be buying any more of thier tools.

I now use Nobuichi and find they are very sharp, hold thier edge and also durable.
Kaizen thinks they are pretty good as well.

All of our bonsai tools are "Nobuichi" brand. The very finest quality Japanese made bonsai tools. The new refined designs of these tools are the result of the collaboration of world renowned bonsai master Nobuichi Urushibata. These tools are the finest of their kind currently available and should NOT be confused with many much cheaper Chinese tools available. We guarantee you will be delighted with the quality and durability of Nobuichi Bonsai Tools.

Here is a link to Nobuichi shohin tools in the US:http://miniature-bonsai.com/catalog/tools.html?nobuichi

I have the long neck concave cutters and the bud trimming shears. Very high quality and impeccable finish.

Fore wrote:All I can think of is "Wow", that's a terrible attitude from Masakuni customer service. I too had always thought they were 'the best'. Now I'm glad I could never afford to buy one, and now I certainly won't.

Max, I feel for you! But I'm glad you posted this. Thanks!

Btw, what brands keep a sharp edge, and are durable? I've seen Joshua Roth, Koyo, Yagimitsu, Yoshiaki, Fugiyama, Munemori,and Yattoko. Large price difference b/w these brands too.

There will be a high quality "new brand" ("new" for outside Japan) tools coming very soon by April in more than 10 countries with special promotion, with quality guarantee of double free replacement :
http://ryugabonsaitools.blogspot.com

For USA, it will be available at Joshua Roth :

http://www.joshuaroth.com/57401/index.html

and see the quality control method at :

http://ryugabonsaitools.blogspot.com/p/about-ryuga-bonsai-tools.html

Maybe you are interested to know why a tool can be broken easily.
On the initial production process, the metal piece should be properly forged by hand before casted into the shape. The forging process is the most crusial stage to ensure the density of the material, which later on confirm the final tool quality.

Another crucial stage is on the cold oil process to harden the blade part. Any pin holes due to improper forging process will severely affect the blade quality which can cause broken. The problem is that there is no technique to ensure if the forging process has been done properly before the cold oil process; so a good quality control method is needed to confirm the final quality.

Only few reliable manufactures have the following high QC procedure to ensure the quality, both the consistent material quality as well as the final functional quality.

After the cold oil treatment, each piece of the tool should go through the pressing test to ensure the blade quality as shown on below picture.
Any improper forging process will never passed the process, the thinner parts will break....



Only the pieces that passed this process should go on to the further finishing process. But this is not the end...each piece should go to another pressing test to ensure the quality of the whole piece especially on the handles. The handles should not bend after the severe pressure...



Done ?..NO !
The final test should be the functional test...to cut dry wood to ensure the cutting result is clean sharp at the middle and the handles are not bending...



Any minor quality will cause the cutting result, or broken or causing an open gap on the blades...





The strict QC procedure should be conducted on all different model tools including scissors in different methods before shipment. A reliable company should give at least 2 years free replacement guarantee to all tools.



Hope this help you to choose the best bonsai tools.



http://ryugabonsaitools.blogspot.com

I had the opportunity to see some of these tools, thanks to the generosity of Ryuga donating some to the California Bonsai Society Convention. While I didn't get to use them a whole lot, I did make some cuts with them which were fine. I was also very impressed by the finish and feel. I'll be trying some out at the nursery and give them a real test. I do think that they are going to give some of the Japanese tool companies some competition though.

RYUGA wrote:Maybe you are interested to know why a tool can be broken easily.
On the initial production process, the metal piece should be properly forged by hand before casted into the shape. The forging process is the most crusial stage to ensure the density of the material, which later on confirm the final tool quality.

Another crucial stage is on the cold oil process to harden the blade part. Any pin holes due to improper forging process will severely affect the blade quality which can cause broken. The problem is that there is no technique to ensure if the forging process has been done properly before the cold oil process; so a good quality control method is needed to confirm the final quality.

snip

interesting info on QC process, thanks Robert.
At what Rockwell hardness are Ryuga tools temepered?

BTW I understand - Ryuga means Dragon's Tooth in Chinese! Cool name.

Thanks Rob.
Yes, "RYUGA" means "Dragon Teeth"..just fit to symbolize the quality of the tools, at the same time to reflect the oriental culture...

The hardness of our Stainless-steel is 55 +/- 2; and for the Carbon-steel is 58 +/- 2.
We will have another high quality of Stainless-steel with hardness 60 +/- 2

Two days ago I got the complete set of stainless tools available. Looks impressive and quite similar to the Japanese tools I have. Will now try it out.

Cheers,

CJ

CJ, make sure to send the inserted card to win your free bonsai trip to China.
BTW, please let us know in case of any quality problem, we give 2 years full replacement guarantee. Tks.

It has been interesting reading both this thread and Brett summers thread which is referenced in this thread also.

I was recently given a pair of masakuni #16 convave cutters for my birthday and I have to say I am thoroughly impressed with them. MInd you I am still pretty fresh when it comes to experience and Im at the stage of upgrading my tools to good quality tools atm.

I have had a lot of trouble contacting my local supplier, and masakuni are yet to respond but I have found an American supplier but the price of the tools is nearly 30% higher than my australian supplier.

I googled masakuni tools which brought me to this thread and I am glad it did as I was about to upgrade all my cheap tools to masakuni.

The only other brand of Japanese tool I have at the moment is Kikuwa which are priced well, nice tools, but I am sure there is better out there.

The question I have though is who is using what brand tool, and what are your recommendations?

I can see that kaneshin, ryuga, and Nobuichi are recommended which is great. But what are the pros and cons of each brand, and are there others I should consider? Ryuga have listed their positives, but are there any negatives? I should mention I am only interested in black steel tools.

Thanks for any suggestions/feedback

luke308 wrote:
But what are the pros and cons of each brand, and are there others I should consider?

Luke,

Sounds like a really good topic for a new thread. Why dont you start one.

Most folks I know buy tools in installments, not sets, and have many different brands in their toolbox. The user is what makes the difference, dont you think

We sell the Fujiyama and have found the price to quality is very good. But their is nothing like the pride of ownership of Masakuni, you just feel like you can do better bonsai !

happy shopping.
D

luke308 wrote:
I have had a lot of trouble contacting my local supplier, and masakuni are yet to respond but I have found an American supplier but the price of the tools is nearly 30% higher than my australian supplier.

The question I have though is who is using what brand tool, and what are your recommendations?

I can see that kaneshin, ryuga, and Nobuichi are recommended which is great. Ryuga have listed their positives, but are there any negatives? I should mention I am only interested in black steel tools.

Thanks for any suggestions/feedback

RYUGA has their agent in Australia : http://www.bonsainet.com.au
RYUGA gives a two-years free replacement guarantee...

Yes indeed Robert Steven, They may be my best friends very soon, once I win the trip to China Contest



-big D

contest

BigDave wrote:Yes indeed Robert Steven, They may be my best friends very soon, once I win the trip to China Contest



-big D

contest

You still have the chance, there is a card inside the packing, just fill and send..who knows we will meet in China...

Thank you Robert, I have placed an order with bonsainet and am eagerly awaiting my tools to arrive.

Just to chime in, I had an older set of concave cutters do the same thing this spring. Not Masakuni brand, I dont recall if they were Roth or not. Now I'm using Kaneshin as well, and those have developed a bit of a gap at the point which is very frustrating. May have to move to the new brand... I've been at this for going on 20 years, so I've cut a few branches in my past.

lordy wrote:Just to chime in, I had an older set of concave cutters do the same thing this spring. Not Masakuni brand, I dont recall if they were Roth or not. Now I'm using Kaneshin as well, and those have developed a bit of a gap at the point which is very frustrating. May have to move to the new brand... I've been at this for going on 20 years, so I've cut a few branches in my past.

Broken and causing open gaps are common problem on bonsai tools. This might be an interesting info for you :



http://ryugabonsaitools.blogspot.com/p/quality-control-of-ryuga.html

Ryuga is the only one providing a two-year free replacement guarantee, I think...

Interesting to catch up on the story and see Ryuga's explanation and quality control. Would love to hear if Masakuni ever got back to Max. I never heard from them.
I managed to re-sharpen my Masakuni, I had to take some of the stop away like they were 20 years old worn out pair but I got them so sharp I could cut leaves in half over the full length of the blade. Managed this with my Kiku as well though   I have had no further trouble with them but I do treat with much care.

Interestingly I have heard great things about Ryuga tools as a great quality and not that expensive either. I purchased a concave/branch cutter and scissors from them but haven't been able to pick them up yet.