Masakuni broken...
+17
newzealandteatree
Bob Pressler
RYUGA
Orion
dick benbow
Brett Summers
ogie
marcus watts
Fore
rock
Poink88
Rob Kempinski
Glaucus
Bruce Winter
stavros
Billy M. Rhodes
Max
21 posters
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Masakuni broken...
Hey everybody,
some while ago my Masakuni suddenly broke while cutting very soft branches on a tree.
I finished my work on the tree with some old cutters of cheap quality. I did not have any problems to cut the same branch with these cheap cutters. So I am absolutely for sure that my Masakuni cutter must have had a material defect.
I wrote to Masakuni because this tool was quite new and quite expensive compared to my cheap cutters.
But nobody answers for weeks. What shall I do? Do I have to write in Japanese? Can anybody help me?
Actually I heard Masakuni gives a lifetime guarantee for such happenings!?
Thanks for your answers.
bw
Max
some while ago my Masakuni suddenly broke while cutting very soft branches on a tree.
I finished my work on the tree with some old cutters of cheap quality. I did not have any problems to cut the same branch with these cheap cutters. So I am absolutely for sure that my Masakuni cutter must have had a material defect.
I wrote to Masakuni because this tool was quite new and quite expensive compared to my cheap cutters.
But nobody answers for weeks. What shall I do? Do I have to write in Japanese? Can anybody help me?
Actually I heard Masakuni gives a lifetime guarantee for such happenings!?
Thanks for your answers.
bw
Max
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Have you contacted the person you purchased the tool from? They probably will not replace it but they help you contact the manufacturer.
Billy M. Rhodes- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Have you contacted the person you purchased the tool from? They probably will not replace it but they help you contact the manufacturer.
Hey Billy,
thanks for your reply.
I forgot to write but actually I bought it directly in Japan..
so that makes it even more difficult for me I am afraid...
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
I would still look for a vendor of the tools somewhere in Europe and ask them about the problem. If they help you maybe next time you will buy from them.
Billy M. Rhodes- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
try Kaizen bonsai.
they sell masakuni tools and they might be able to help
they sell masakuni tools and they might be able to help
stavros- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Hey Bill,
Hey Stavros,
thank you for your tipps!
I thought it would be a little rude to post on their website so I forgot this possibility!...
But now I will do so. Thanks a lot!
Best wishes
Max
Hey Stavros,
thank you for your tipps!
I thought it would be a little rude to post on their website so I forgot this possibility!...
But now I will do so. Thanks a lot!
Best wishes
Max
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
This is a previous post on masakuni. Note the last entry on pg 2. but you're in Germany so maybe it doesn't apply.
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5503-masakuni-tools-contact?highlight=masakuni
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5503-masakuni-tools-contact?highlight=masakuni
Bruce Winter- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Thanks Bruce!
it doesn't make me happy to read this...
Let's see what happens next.
I will inform you.
Best wishes.
Max
it doesn't make me happy to read this...
Let's see what happens next.
I will inform you.
Best wishes.
Max
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
The company you bought it from is legally bound to cover the warranty. They can't redirect you to the manufacturer.
Glaucus- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Hey Glaucus,
yes! but it is even more complicated to get my warranty from the japanese store where I bought it...
yes! but it is even more complicated to get my warranty from the japanese store where I bought it...
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
It appears that the fractured surface is uniform and grainy looking (although the picture is a bit tough to see). This would indicate brittle fracture or an overloading of the tool unless you can see some sort of inclusion (defect, foreign particle, or void). If its brittle fracture it could mean the tool was improperly heat treated and subject to warranty. If overloading casued the failure, as the notch on the non-broken jaw would tend to indicate, then the manufacturer will likely say the warranty is voided due to misuse.
and you're wasting your time trying to contact them. This is Masakuni's excuse for not replacing tools to westerners - "we don't know how to use them."
I have owned several Masakuni tools and all suffered some sort of failure during use. Their heat treating seems to go for very sharp edges (high Rockwell hardness) at the expensive of ductility making them suspect to chipping and cracking. I don't plan to buy any more.
and you're wasting your time trying to contact them. This is Masakuni's excuse for not replacing tools to westerners - "we don't know how to use them."
I have owned several Masakuni tools and all suffered some sort of failure during use. Their heat treating seems to go for very sharp edges (high Rockwell hardness) at the expensive of ductility making them suspect to chipping and cracking. I don't plan to buy any more.
Rob Kempinski- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Max, That is a bummer.
I have a 7" cutter as well where one side had jagged edge when I purchased it (used) one side is perfect though and I am assuming either the heat treatment on the broken side is bad or the blade is too thin that it breaks easily (some as deep as 1mm). I don't know if it was abused but why does it have chips only in one side? I managed to even it out and works well now but it is not the quality I expected associated with the name/reputation. My cheap Josh Roth are actually performing better IMHO. Good thing mine (5 piece set) was purchased cheap for $100 .
I have a 7" cutter as well where one side had jagged edge when I purchased it (used) one side is perfect though and I am assuming either the heat treatment on the broken side is bad or the blade is too thin that it breaks easily (some as deep as 1mm). I don't know if it was abused but why does it have chips only in one side? I managed to even it out and works well now but it is not the quality I expected associated with the name/reputation. My cheap Josh Roth are actually performing better IMHO. Good thing mine (5 piece set) was purchased cheap for $100 .
Poink88- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
I concur with my college from florida. I dealt in Masakuni in the early 2000's buying wholesale through a Japanese vendor. took it on the chin everytime and it was often,( with the same excuse...---westerners - "we don't know how to use them."Rob Kempinski wrote:It appears that the fractured surface is uniform and grainy looking (although the picture is a bit tough to see). This would indicate brittle fracture or an overloading of the tool unless you can see some sort of inclusion (defect, foreign particle, or void). If its brittle fracture it could mean the tool was improperly heat treated and subject to warranty. If overloading casued the failure, as the notch on the non-broken jaw would tend to indicate, then the manufacturer will likely say the warranty is voided due to misuse.
and you're wasting your time trying to contact them. This is Masakuni's excuse for not replacing tools to westerners - "we don't know how to use them."
I have owned several Masakuni tools and all suffered some sort of failure during use. Their heat treating seems to go for very sharp edges (high Rockwell hardness) at the expensive of ductility making them suspect to chipping and cracking. I don't plan to buy any more.
bad customer service I sez
rock- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
All I can think of is "Wow", that's a terrible attitude from Masakuni customer service. I too had always thought they were 'the best'. Now I'm glad I could never afford to buy one, and now I certainly won't.
Max, I feel for you! But I'm glad you posted this. Thanks!
Btw, what brands keep a sharp edge, and are durable? I've seen Joshua Roth, Koyo, Yagimitsu, Yoshiaki, Fugiyama, Munemori,and Yattoko. Large price difference b/w these brands too.
Max, I feel for you! But I'm glad you posted this. Thanks!
Btw, what brands keep a sharp edge, and are durable? I've seen Joshua Roth, Koyo, Yagimitsu, Yoshiaki, Fugiyama, Munemori,and Yattoko. Large price difference b/w these brands too.
Fore- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
how strange the reports of breakage - i have 5 of their tools now, all bought from japan directly, and never a single chip or breakage. I have even dropped the concave cutter on a concrete floor where it landed points down and luckily there was no damage although i expected the next cut to break the blade like this one - this was 2 years ago so no fracture
I would probably have broken their tools in the first 10-12 years of learning bonsai as i broke stainless and black steel wire cutters, side cutters, concave cutter etc, so it is certainly a learning process and also having the right sized tool for the exact branch (thickness, hardness & age are all a factor), which only comes with time as you build a tool collection. My early tools were bounced around in a tool box too (very bad) - now i roll them in an oiled soft leather tool roll not touching each other. I think for 12-15 years or more nobody needs a tool like masacuni - spend the money on trees, trees and more trees - the tools wont make your early trees any better.
i think this tool will have taken an earlier bang in transit or use, then any branch near the limit (half the diameter of the cutter blade at most ?) could easily crack it.
Sorry to say I dont think you will recieve compensation, i certainly never sent back any of my stainless tools when they broke knowing it would have been part of my learning process (and the stainless are not cheap either).
regards Marcus
I would probably have broken their tools in the first 10-12 years of learning bonsai as i broke stainless and black steel wire cutters, side cutters, concave cutter etc, so it is certainly a learning process and also having the right sized tool for the exact branch (thickness, hardness & age are all a factor), which only comes with time as you build a tool collection. My early tools were bounced around in a tool box too (very bad) - now i roll them in an oiled soft leather tool roll not touching each other. I think for 12-15 years or more nobody needs a tool like masacuni - spend the money on trees, trees and more trees - the tools wont make your early trees any better.
i think this tool will have taken an earlier bang in transit or use, then any branch near the limit (half the diameter of the cutter blade at most ?) could easily crack it.
Sorry to say I dont think you will recieve compensation, i certainly never sent back any of my stainless tools when they broke knowing it would have been part of my learning process (and the stainless are not cheap either).
regards Marcus
marcus watts- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Hey Marcus,
thanks for your reply.
Well, although I am quite young (23) I already practise Bonsai for nearly 9 years now intensively.
And I do not just "practise" a little. I got a master (He is quite famous in Germany) who teaches me several hours a week since I started.
I even got customers who pay me for sustaining their whole collections.
So I feel free to say: I know how to use a cutter.
It's nice that you want to tell me it's a learning process. But in fact just tell me why should anybody use Masakuni if it does not even cut soft branches without breakage? What should then be the reason for using Masakuni instead of cheap cutters? It seems to brake quite easy and doesn't cut better then cheap cutters. Only differences (maybe) it looks better (or not) and it's much more expensive.
Anyway.
Best wishes
Max
thanks for your reply.
Well, although I am quite young (23) I already practise Bonsai for nearly 9 years now intensively.
And I do not just "practise" a little. I got a master (He is quite famous in Germany) who teaches me several hours a week since I started.
I even got customers who pay me for sustaining their whole collections.
So I feel free to say: I know how to use a cutter.
It's nice that you want to tell me it's a learning process. But in fact just tell me why should anybody use Masakuni if it does not even cut soft branches without breakage? What should then be the reason for using Masakuni instead of cheap cutters? It seems to brake quite easy and doesn't cut better then cheap cutters. Only differences (maybe) it looks better (or not) and it's much more expensive.
Anyway.
Best wishes
Max
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Hi Max,
Sorry you had to learned it the hard ways,but Marcus is right,although we would like to get full refund of defective tools,but its just one of those things that it'll be in futility.I know hard earned money are hard to get but, lets just say CHARGE it to experience.Factory deffects are common,part of it Sam,i had good tools also but improper handling on my part was the culprit.
Anyway i'm sure this won't stop you.I think you'll be one of the best Bonsai artist,Keep it up and do lots of bonsai
Regards,
Alex
Sorry you had to learned it the hard ways,but Marcus is right,although we would like to get full refund of defective tools,but its just one of those things that it'll be in futility.I know hard earned money are hard to get but, lets just say CHARGE it to experience.Factory deffects are common,part of it Sam,i had good tools also but improper handling on my part was the culprit.
Anyway i'm sure this won't stop you.I think you'll be one of the best Bonsai artist,Keep it up and do lots of bonsai
Regards,
Alex
ogie- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Thanks, Alex!
For sure I'll find a way to deal with it. A very friendly user in this forum is going to write an email for me in japanese.
So if this doesn't work I will for sure quit working with Masakuni tools. So other tools will benefit from it!
Luckily there are enough substitutes..
Best wishes!
Max
For sure I'll find a way to deal with it. A very friendly user in this forum is going to write an email for me in japanese.
So if this doesn't work I will for sure quit working with Masakuni tools. So other tools will benefit from it!
Luckily there are enough substitutes..
Best wishes!
Max
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Hi Max
I had the chipped cutters in the other thread. I think a company that makes no effort to reply (there is easy online translators in any event) is not a company worth dealing with.
I won't be buying any more of thier tools.
I now use Nobuichi and find they are very sharp, hold thier edge and also durable.
Kaizen thinks they are pretty good as well.
I had the chipped cutters in the other thread. I think a company that makes no effort to reply (there is easy online translators in any event) is not a company worth dealing with.
I won't be buying any more of thier tools.
I now use Nobuichi and find they are very sharp, hold thier edge and also durable.
Kaizen thinks they are pretty good as well.
All of our bonsai tools are "Nobuichi" brand. The very finest quality Japanese made bonsai tools. The new refined designs of these tools are the result of the collaboration of world renowned bonsai master Nobuichi Urushibata. These tools are the finest of their kind currently available and should NOT be confused with many much cheaper Chinese tools available. We guarantee you will be delighted with the quality and durability of Nobuichi Bonsai Tools.
Brett Summers- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Hey Brett,
Well, let's see if they reply now...
Thanks for your tipps. You're right there are a lot of substitutes to Masakuni.
best wishes
Max
Well, let's see if they reply now...
Thanks for your tipps. You're right there are a lot of substitutes to Masakuni.
best wishes
Max
Max- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
I think what helps to appreciate the differences is to look into how each is manufacturered. The different steels , how much carbon used etc. and tempering can make a tool sharper and more susceptible to breakage. I have many long into bonsai friends that have experienced similar mishaps with this name brand tools.
I have to laugh about the westerners, not knowing how to use tools.
get same story in Koi, your koi died because you don't know how to take care of the water. how convenient
truth betold, it was probably injured in delievery/cargo handling so neither is totally responsible yet end result is the same, unhappy customer.
hang in there and thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself, your training, caring for other's collection. Keep up the good work!!!!
I have to laugh about the westerners, not knowing how to use tools.
get same story in Koi, your koi died because you don't know how to take care of the water. how convenient
truth betold, it was probably injured in delievery/cargo handling so neither is totally responsible yet end result is the same, unhappy customer.
hang in there and thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself, your training, caring for other's collection. Keep up the good work!!!!
dick benbow- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
I like your style Dick Benbowdick benbow wrote: Keep up the good work!!!!
rock- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
I never had a blade snap like that only the handle and on a branch smaller than the recommended size limit. Piece by piece I've been replacing my tools with Kaneshin; excellent tools.
Orion- Member
Re: Masakuni broken...
Brett Summers wrote:
I now use Nobuichi and find they are very sharp, hold thier edge and also durable.
Kaizen thinks they are pretty good as well.
Can you recommend a good online source? I am on the market for a 8" (or larger) concave cutter. Thank you.Orion wrote:Piece by piece I've been replacing my tools with Kaneshin; excellent tools.
Poink88- Member
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