Masakuni broken...

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Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:14 pm

Hey everybody,

some while ago my Masakuni suddenly broke while cutting very soft branches on a tree.
I finished my work on the tree with some old cutters of cheap quality. I did not have any problems to cut the same branch with these cheap cutters. So I am absolutely for sure that my Masakuni cutter must have had a material defect.
I wrote to Masakuni because this tool was quite new and quite expensive compared to my cheap cutters.
But nobody answers for weeks. What shall I do? Do I have to write in Japanese? Can anybody help me?
Actually I heard Masakuni gives a lifetime guarantee for such happenings!?

Thanks for your answers.

bw
Max



Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:39 pm

Have you contacted the person you purchased the tool from? They probably will not replace it but they help you contact the manufacturer.

Billy M. Rhodes
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:46 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Have you contacted the person you purchased the tool from? They probably will not replace it but they help you contact the manufacturer.

Hey Billy,
thanks for your reply.

I forgot to write but actually I bought it directly in Japan..
so that makes it even more difficult for me I am afraid...

Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:50 pm

I would still look for a vendor of the tools somewhere in Europe and ask them about the problem. If they help you maybe next time you will buy from them.

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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  stavros on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:53 pm

try Kaizen bonsai.
they sell masakuni tools and they might be able to help

stavros
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:01 pm

Have you tried posting to their web site?

Billy M. Rhodes
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:27 pm

Hey Bill,
Hey Stavros,

thank you for your tipps!
I thought it would be a little rude to post on their website so I forgot this possibility!...
But now I will do so. Thanks a lot! Wink

Best wishes
Max


Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Bruce Winter on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:13 pm

This is a previous post on masakuni. Note the last entry on pg 2. but you're in Germany so maybe it doesn't apply. Rolling Eyes

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5503-masakuni-tools-contact?highlight=masakuni

Bruce Winter
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:18 pm

Thanks Bruce!
it doesn't make me happy to read this...
Let's see what happens next.

I will inform you.

Best wishes.
Max

Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Glaucus on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:51 pm

The company you bought it from is legally bound to cover the warranty. They can't redirect you to the manufacturer.

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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:03 am

Hey Glaucus,

yes! but it is even more complicated to get my warranty from the japanese store where I bought it...

Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:16 am

It appears that the fractured surface is uniform and grainy looking (although the picture is a bit tough to see). This would indicate brittle fracture or an overloading of the tool unless you can see some sort of inclusion (defect, foreign particle, or void). If its brittle fracture it could mean the tool was improperly heat treated and subject to warranty. If overloading casued the failure, as the notch on the non-broken jaw would tend to indicate, then the manufacturer will likely say the warranty is voided due to misuse.
and you're wasting your time trying to contact them. This is Masakuni's excuse for not replacing tools to westerners - "we don't know how to use them."

I have owned several Masakuni tools and all suffered some sort of failure during use. Their heat treating seems to go for very sharp edges (high Rockwell hardness) at the expensive of ductility making them suspect to chipping and cracking. I don't plan to buy any more.

Rob Kempinski
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Poink88 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:26 pm

Max, That is a bummer.

I have a 7" cutter as well where one side had jagged edge when I purchased it (used) one side is perfect though and I am assuming either the heat treatment on the broken side is bad or the blade is too thin that it breaks easily (some as deep as 1mm). I don't know if it was abused but why does it have chips only in one side? I managed to even it out and works well now but it is not the quality I expected associated with the name/reputation. My cheap Josh Roth are actually performing better IMHO. Good thing mine (5 piece set) was purchased cheap for $100 Very Happy.

Poink88
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  rock on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:29 am

Rob Kempinski wrote:It appears that the fractured surface is uniform and grainy looking (although the picture is a bit tough to see). This would indicate brittle fracture or an overloading of the tool unless you can see some sort of inclusion (defect, foreign particle, or void). If its brittle fracture it could mean the tool was improperly heat treated and subject to warranty. If overloading casued the failure, as the notch on the non-broken jaw would tend to indicate, then the manufacturer will likely say the warranty is voided due to misuse.
and you're wasting your time trying to contact them. This is Masakuni's excuse for not replacing tools to westerners - "we don't know how to use them."

I have owned several Masakuni tools and all suffered some sort of failure during use. Their heat treating seems to go for very sharp edges (high Rockwell hardness) at the expensive of ductility making them suspect to chipping and cracking. I don't plan to buy any more.
I concur with my college from florida. I dealt in Masakuni in the early 2000's buying wholesale through a Japanese vendor. took it on the chin everytime and it was often,( with the same excuse...---westerners - "we don't know how to use them."
bad customer service I sez

rock
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Fore on Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:41 pm

All I can think of is "Wow", that's a terrible attitude from Masakuni customer service. I too had always thought they were 'the best'. Now I'm glad I could never afford to buy one, and now I certainly won't.

Max, I feel for you! But I'm glad you posted this. Thanks!

Btw, what brands keep a sharp edge, and are durable? I've seen Joshua Roth, Koyo, Yagimitsu, Yoshiaki, Fugiyama, Munemori,and Yattoko. Large price difference b/w these brands too.

Fore
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  marcus watts on Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:41 am

how strange the reports of breakage - i have 5 of their tools now, all bought from japan directly, and never a single chip or breakage. I have even dropped the concave cutter on a concrete floor where it landed points down and luckily there was no damage although i expected the next cut to break the blade like this one - this was 2 years ago so no fracture cheers

I would probably have broken their tools in the first 10-12 years of learning bonsai as i broke stainless and black steel wire cutters, side cutters, concave cutter etc, so it is certainly a learning process and also having the right sized tool for the exact branch (thickness, hardness & age are all a factor), which only comes with time as you build a tool collection. My early tools were bounced around in a tool box too (very bad) - now i roll them in an oiled soft leather tool roll not touching each other. I think for 12-15 years or more nobody needs a tool like masacuni - spend the money on trees, trees and more trees - the tools wont make your early trees any better.

i think this tool will have taken an earlier bang in transit or use, then any branch near the limit (half the diameter of the cutter blade at most ?) could easily crack it.

Sorry to say I dont think you will recieve compensation, i certainly never sent back any of my stainless tools when they broke knowing it would have been part of my learning process (and the stainless are not cheap either).

regards Marcus

marcus watts
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:28 am

Hey Marcus,

thanks for your reply.
Well, although I am quite young (23) I already practise Bonsai for nearly 9 years now intensively.
And I do not just "practise" a little. I got a master (He is quite famous in Germany) who teaches me several hours a week since I started.
I even got customers who pay me for sustaining their whole collections.
So I feel free to say: I know how to use a cutter.

It's nice that you want to tell me it's a learning process. But in fact just tell me why should anybody use Masakuni if it does not even cut soft branches without breakage? What should then be the reason for using Masakuni instead of cheap cutters? It seems to brake quite easy and doesn't cut better then cheap cutters. Only differences (maybe) it looks better (or not) and it's much more expensive.

Anyway.
Best wishes

Max

Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  ogie on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:00 am

Hi Max,
Sorry you had to learned it the hard ways,but Marcus is right,although we would like to get full refund of defective tools,but its just one of those things that it'll be in futility.I know hard earned money are hard to get but, lets just say CHARGE it to experience.Factory deffects are common,part of it Sam,i had good tools also but improper handling on my part was the culprit.
Anyway i'm sure this won't stop you.I think you'll be one of the best Bonsai artist,Keep it up and do lots of bonsai

Regards,
Alex Smile

ogie
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:51 am

Thanks, Alex! Embarassed Wink
For sure I'll find a way to deal with it. A very friendly user in this forum is going to write an email for me in japanese.
So if this doesn't work I will for sure quit working with Masakuni tools. So other tools will benefit from it!
Luckily there are enough substitutes..

Best wishes!
Max

Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Brett Summers on Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:59 am

Hi Max
I had the chipped cutters in the other thread. I think a company that makes no effort to reply (there is easy online translators in any event) is not a company worth dealing with.
I won't be buying any more of thier tools.

I now use Nobuichi and find they are very sharp, hold thier edge and also durable.
Kaizen thinks they are pretty good as well.
All of our bonsai tools are "Nobuichi" brand. The very finest quality Japanese made bonsai tools. The new refined designs of these tools are the result of the collaboration of world renowned bonsai master Nobuichi Urushibata. These tools are the finest of their kind currently available and should NOT be confused with many much cheaper Chinese tools available. We guarantee you will be delighted with the quality and durability of Nobuichi Bonsai Tools.

Brett Summers
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Max on Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:53 pm

Hey Brett,

Well, let's see if they reply now...
Thanks for your tipps. You're right there are a lot of substitutes to Masakuni.

best wishes
Max

Max
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  dick benbow on Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:05 pm

I think what helps to appreciate the differences is to look into how each is manufacturered. The different steels , how much carbon used etc. and tempering can make a tool sharper and more susceptible to breakage. I have many long into bonsai friends that have experienced similar mishaps with this name brand tools.

I have to laugh about the westerners, not knowing how to use tools.

get same story in Koi, your koi died because you don't know how to take care of the water. how convenient Smile
truth betold, it was probably injured in delievery/cargo handling so neither is totally responsible yet end result is the same, unhappy customer.

hang in there and thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself, your training, caring for other's collection. Keep up the good work!!!!

dick benbow
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  rock on Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:31 pm

dick benbow wrote: Keep up the good work!!!!
I like your style Dick Benbow ThumbsUp

rock
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Orion on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:19 am

I never had a blade snap like that only the handle and on a branch smaller than the recommended size limit. Piece by piece I've been replacing my tools with Kaneshin; excellent tools.

Orion
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Re: Masakuni broken...

Post  Poink88 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:53 am

Brett Summers wrote:
I now use Nobuichi and find they are very sharp, hold thier edge and also durable.
Kaizen thinks they are pretty good as well.
Orion wrote:Piece by piece I've been replacing my tools with Kaneshin; excellent tools.
Can you recommend a good online source? I am on the market for a 8" (or larger) concave cutter. Thank you.

Poink88
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Re: Masakuni broken...

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