Pinyon Pines

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Pinyon Pines

Post  Cordon on Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:23 pm

An earlier post discussing the merits and disadvantages of Ponderosa pines reminded me of a question that I've had for some time.

Has anyone had any success using Pinyon Pines as bonsai subjects? There was a discussion of the pinyon on Bonsai Tonight. However, I've never seen any examples. Pinyon general category that describes several species that grow all over the western US. They tend to be extremely hardy trees and extremely drought tolerant.

This spring I intend to try collecting a couple small pinyons to see how they fair. If they fair well, why spend money on Japanese red and white pines?

Thoughts?

Cordon
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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  JimLewis on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:09 am

Hearsay only, but I'm an old Arizonan, and have been told they are very hard to keep alive in a pot.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Pinus edulus

Post  jupitermininginc on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:58 am

So long as the needles aren't too long, I figure native is best. The art form is Japanese but the trees need not be. They should like your climate best with low humidity summers.

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  PaulH on Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:11 am

Mike Hagedorn had one I remember reading about. Check his website.
http://crataegus.com/

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Cordon on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:42 am

Since Pinyons are desert plants they can probably be over watered quite easily in pots. All I can do is give it a shot I guess.

The pines have nice short needles and could make handsome bonsai one day.


Cordon
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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  JimLewis on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:53 pm

Where are you getting the plants? They'd be hard to dig since they are desert plants. Lots of LONG heavy roots with fine roots at their ends.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Cordon on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:22 pm

Jim,

The area I plan to try and collect is an Arroyo on BLM land, basically a desert wash. My thinking was that, when it does rain, these areas see more water and would likely have a shallower root system. I'll also keep my eye out for trees growing in a confined area that might have a fully contained root system.

We'll see however. If I can't find fine roots I won't bother digging the tree. I will try and collect seed and see what I can accomplish with that.

Cordon
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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Walter Pall on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:34 pm

Pinyon pines are very good for bonsai. They have short neeldes and often quite promising trunks and deadwood. We use them more and more at Nature's Way Nursery in Harrsiburg, Pa. They must be in very well draining substrate. Then they can almost NOT be over watered. We water them evry day like hell and they look much better than they ever look like in the Rockies.

Here is our best Pinyon pine.





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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:19 pm

Walter Pall wrote:Pinyon pines are very good for bonsai. They have short neeldes and often quite promising trunks and deadwood. We use them more and more at Nature's Way Nursery in Harrsiburg, Pa. They must be in very well draining substrate. Then they can almost NOT be over watered. We water them evry day like hell and they look much better than they ever look like in the Rockies.

Here is our best Pinyon pine.





Wow, those are short needles indeed. Has there been any needle reduction work done on this pine or is that natural foliage?

Have a great week!!!
Sam

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Dwight on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:01 pm

They don't need any needle reduction. The needles are naturally very short ( 1" ) .

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Pinyon Pines

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:10 pm

Is it possible to collect Pinyon pines in June?
Iris

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  NeilDellinger on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:49 am

Although I've not grown one myself. A friend in Tulsa has a couple that were collected in New Mexico. They've been thriving in pots for years.

Upon seeing these trees grow for a couple of years, I recall they back bud extremely well when given good feed and watered normally in well draining soil...just a Walter suggested.

Very rugged little trees.

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Walter Pall on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:15 am

The foliage is clearly better than ponderosa, simply by being much shorter. In captivity the foliage will be even more short after a couple of years.

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Dwight on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:29 pm

bonsaisr wrote:Is it possible to collect Pinyon pines in June?
Iris

March or April is much better. I had one given to me years ago that had been pulled out of thhe ground ( seriously ). No small roots. I put it in bonsai soil , misted and watered it and it lasted until I left it out in -2 F weather. Grew like crazy after the first year. Good ramification and backbudding as Walter saays

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Pinyon Pines

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:00 pm

Does anyone know: will anyone be selling collected pinyon pines in Denver? Does anyone in Albuquerque sell them? I will be in Albuquerque in June, right before or after the convention. If I dig up a pinyon pine then, is it a guaranteed loss or does it stand a chance?
Iris

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 am

bonsaisr wrote:Does anyone know: will anyone be selling collected pinyon pines in Denver? Does anyone in Albuquerque sell them? I will be in Albuquerque in June, right before or after the convention. If I dig up a pinyon pine then, is it a guaranteed loss or does it stand a chance?
Iris

You can buy a Pinyon pines at nurseries in the west. There are some in the Denver area such as http://www.coloradotreefarmnursery.com/stock/evergreen-trees/

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Miguel Pérez on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:29 am

Hello all,

I got these two Pinyon Pines (Pinus cembroides edulis) from seed last year. Since we don´t have trees available to collect, (we don´t have pretty much a thing regarding bonsai, no nurseries, no clubs, no bonsai stores) basically if you want a tree the only source is seed. I have been reading that it is a waste of time to start a conifer from seed, unfortunately no options here. 85% Zeolite 15% pine bark. I water them on a daily basis and 3X fertilizer dose every week.




Miguel.

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Pinyon Pines

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:27 am

Since there seems to be so much enthusiasm for collected pinyon pines, I was hoping to snag one while I am out there. No local version of Andy Smith?
Iris

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Cordon on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:41 am

Walter,

Thanks for the picture. That's exactly what I was looking for. I have thought that there was great potential for some time, small needles, tendency for low branching, hardy, and nice bark.

I'm glad to see that this has generated some interest in a Native American species. They grow literally everywhere in NM, from the Rio Grande valley to 9000 feet, clay, sand and cracks in rock. They don't seem to care. They also grow in CO, UT, AZ, CA, Mexico, TX... all over the place. The real trick is going to be finding some worth the effort of digging with decent chance of survival.

Miguel,

It's never a waste of time to start from seed. Only your final goal matters.

I'll post pictures of my potential subjects. These will be my first collected pines. I plan to dig in march in my area. I'd appreciate any advice that the group would be willing to offer.

Cordon
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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Walter Pall on Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:43 am

A few collected ones are available at Nature's Way Nursery in Harrisburg, Pa. There will by more by the end of March just before Woodstock V from March 30 to April 1.

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Pinyon Pines

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:16 pm

Walter Pall wrote:A few collected ones are available at Nature's Way Nursery in Harrisburg, Pa. There will by more by the end of March
I was wondering about that, in case New Mexico is a bust.
Iris

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Dwight on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:45 pm

There are a few people in the Albuquerque club who own pinons but no one collects commercially. You might Google the club and try to contact some of the members who live in Albuquerque or Santa Fe.

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Pinyon Pines

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:25 pm

I did contact the club. No response.
Iris

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Bob Pressler on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:27 am

Collecting in NM in June is not a good idea.

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Re: Pinyon Pines

Post  Fore on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:29 pm

I've been told by a local enthusiast that Pinyons are hard to keep here where we get a lot of spring-fall rains. Doesn't like to be wet. Yet Walter's Pinyon I'm sure gets a lot of rain...so I'm not sure at this point. But I do love them! Wink

Fore
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Re: Pinyon Pines

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