Question on two coniferous trees

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Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Vitusus on Sun May 22, 2016 10:06 am

Hi there,

I need a help with two trees that I inherited in the ground when I bought the house in which I live now:







This first one I firstly need to identify as I am not sure what kind of tree it might be, it looks like some variety of spruce but who knows. It is around 150 cm tall and as you can see from the pictures it was quite badly shaded from the back side and has almost no branches on that part.

I want to leave it in the ground for now, but I would like to prune it a bit, so there is more light going inside the tree. And I am also thinking about getting the height of the tree down, so that in the future it might be replanted in some kind of bonsai pot. What do you think, can I do some pruning now or should I wait for some better time?


Second tree is I think a yew:




This one is slightly over 2 meters high and I am thinking of leaving it in the ground permanently, but I would like to style it a bit, it has a multi-trunk structure - the trunks are separating almost at the ground level. Now that I am looking at the picture, I might be tempted to put it out of the ground one day but I will have to make it much shorter and work on the branch structure and style of the tree which will need some thinking Very Happy

Anyway, I would like to know if I can do anything to this yew now or when is the best time to do it?

Thank you very much for your advice.

Regards

Vitusus

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two pines

Post  geoffm5eay on Sun May 22, 2016 11:12 am

The second one looks like a Yew. The first possibly Spruce but not sure.

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Dirk Hoorelbeke on Sun May 22, 2016 11:28 am

first is a picea glauca conica. https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/83270/Picea-glauca-var-albertiana-Conica/Details?returnurl=%2Fplants%2Fsearch-results%3Fform-mode%3Dfalse%26query%3Dpicea%2Bglauca%26aliaspath%3D%252fplants%252fsearch-results
very susceptible for spider mites. The browning on this example might be caused by it. Not optimal material for bonsai. Second is taxus baccata fastigiata, grows strait up, but can be trained as bonsai, the same as his not fastigiata brother.

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Indo Andreas on Mon May 23, 2016 12:41 pm

Nice trees. You can prune it without problem, start with the dead branches cut 3mm before the trunk , don't cut mor the 20-30% of the foliage at any given time, don't all new tips on your tree, plants like Juniper don't like it and can even die. If you like to take it out, go around the tree 50-60 cm and start digging a channel about 35-40 cm deep, then cut with a spate the roots below 45 degree angle, but only a quarter or a third max at a time, close it watch the tree respond, 3 month in, do the next third and so on. After you done all roots should be cut below and new finer roots should be established. Make sure you got all the way to the centre too.


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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Vitusus on Mon May 23, 2016 1:29 pm

Thank you, I think I will prune some of the branches at the moment to see more into the trees' structures and the I will see what to do next, I might take more pictures.

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  augustine on Mon May 23, 2016 3:14 pm

the yew is an upright growing variety and it will be a constant battle to wire the branches down. It will take wiring and rewiring, the variety was developed for upright growth. My opinion are that they are unsatisfactory for bonsai.

First tree looks like white spruce,

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  klosi on Mon May 23, 2016 4:44 pm

First one, as stated above, is Picea Glauca Conica. Not very good material for bonsai.

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  M. Frary on Mon May 23, 2016 5:30 pm

I'd give that yew a go maybe. They backbud on old wood at least.
I'd leave that Alberta spruce where it is.

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Vitusus on Mon May 23, 2016 7:05 pm

klosi wrote:First one, as stated above, is Picea Glauca Conica. Not very good material for bonsai.

Why is it so bad for a bonsai? Anyway, I will try to do something with it as I don't like how it looks Wink And it stays in the way of a rose that is behind, so it would go out of the ground in any case. So I will just use it as a material for practicing Very Happy

That said, I am a bit bored recently, so I started to do some more cleaning of the dead little branches and I also cut some branches in the lower part of the tree to see how it looks inside. So now it does look really ugly Very Happy

However, I want the upper part to go, so my question now would be where to cut it, when to do it and when to re-pot it. Someone suggested that "If [I] like to take it out, go around the tree 50-60 cm and start digging a channel about 35-40 cm deep, then cut with a spate the roots below 45 degree angle, but only a quarter or a third max at a time, close it watch the tree respond, 3 month in, do the next third and so on. After you done all roots should be cut below and new finer roots should be established. Make sure you got all the way to the centre too"

Is there any possibility to re-plant it at once? And if so, when? I know the good time is when the new buds are about to open but obviously I already missed that time. Is it ok to re-plant it now? Or should I wait?

Just a few pictures to see the effects of my frenzy:




So that's a front view and a back view, I can't take pictures from sides as there are other plants.

Looking forward to more feedback

Vitusus

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Indo Andreas on Mon May 23, 2016 11:39 pm

augustine wrote:the yew is an upright growing variety and it will be a constant battle to wire the branches down. It will take wiring and rewiring, the variety was developed for upright growth. My opinion are that they are unsatisfactory for bonsai.

First tree looks like white spruce,

So are Juniper, the bending and wiring, is the only way to do it, I need to rewire my Junipers every 3-4 month, because they wire grow in so fast. So that should not be the issue to make a bonsai, I kind of like the Idea of doing the unusual thing, better if nobody tried it before, one never knows what comes out until we tried.



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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Indo Andreas on Mon May 23, 2016 11:51 pm

Is there any possibility to re-plant it at once? And if so, when? I know the good time is when the new buds are about to open but obviously I already missed that time. Is it ok to re-plant it now? Or should I wait?

Sure you can, but it bares always a risk, (Now that saying I don't know much about their roots) If the roots are surface roots, or they shoot deep is the question (we could look it up).

What ever you do take a wide an deep approach to dig onto the trunk and see what root mass you got, have a big container, wooden box ready in a size that you and the tree can handle. I sometimes go the very hard way (not recommended, Don't do it so, it can kill) and repot into new soil straight.

When you got time, finish your trimming and modification, than let the tree recover, then go the next step. The Jew or Buddhist Pine, I like because they make awesome Bonsai, I got 5 in progress. You can air layer the top for a bonsai, don't throw away any clippings the grow very nice.

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Vitusus on Tue May 24, 2016 7:54 am

Indo Andreas wrote:Is there any possibility to re-plant it at once? And if so, when? I know the good time is when the new buds are about to open but obviously I already missed that time. Is it ok to re-plant it now? Or should I wait?

Sure you can, but it bares always a risk, (Now that saying I don't know much about their roots) If the roots are surface roots, or they shoot deep is the question (we could look it up).

What ever you do take a wide an deep approach to dig onto the trunk and see what root mass you got, have a big container, wooden box ready in a size that you and the tree can handle. I sometimes go the very hard way (not recommended, Don't do it so, it can kill) and repot into new soil straight.

When you got time, finish your trimming and modification, than let the tree recover, then go the next step. The Jew or Buddhist Pine, I like because they make awesome Bonsai, I got 5 in progress. You can air layer the top for a bonsai, don't throw away any clippings the grow very nice.


Thank you for the reply, if I understand it correctly, you suggest that I should put it in a big container with whole root ball for now and finish the pruning and possibly air-layer the upper part to get two trees out of this.

Others, what do you think about it? And do these spruce trees air-layer well?

Thanks for the replies.

Vitusus

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  leatherback on Tue May 24, 2016 8:00 am

THe picea is unsuitable because it does not keep the branches in place. Even after years of wiring, it will revert to original placing. Also, they die very easily when transplanted.

The Yew you can transplant now, or any other time of the year. Best time is early spring. I have 7 MUCH older specimens, collected in August last year, bare rooted and cut to stumps, 4 of which are certain to survive now, the other 3 are still in doubt. Just make sure you keep the substrate on the dry side afterwards, and mainly spray with water. Pace in the shade.

The picea will die if you transplant now, and probably will still die if you transplant in the right time of year, without proper rootwork beforehand.

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Re: Question on two coniferous trees

Post  Vitusus on Tue May 24, 2016 8:24 am

leatherback wrote:THe picea is unsuitable because it does not keep the branches in place. Even after years of wiring, it will revert to original placing. Also, they die very easily when transplanted.

The Yew you can transplant now, or any other time of the year. Best time is early spring. I have 7 MUCH older specimens, collected in August last year, bare rooted and cut to stumps, 4 of which are certain to survive now, the other 3 are still in doubt. Just make sure you keep the substrate on the dry side afterwards, and mainly spray with water. Pace in the shade.

The picea will die if you transplant now, and probably will still die if you transplant in the right time of year, without proper rootwork beforehand.

Ok, wiring might be a problem but it could make me keep practicing it regularly. I am more concerned about the repotting of it. What is the best time? Early spring as well? And what do you mean by proper rootwork? And can I continue with the pruning right now or should I wait till I don't know mid summer or later?

As far as the yew is concerned, I will have to look at it and maybe I will try to plant some cuts as well.

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