Juniper progression

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  fiona on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:44 pm

The thread is nearly two years old - pretty much the timescale I'd set to let the tree recover after the heavy work it had back then. I'm aiming to get the tree into its final pot next spring, which is why I'm doing a bit more this year that the simple trim it had last summer.

Pavel's virt is on page 2 but here it is again:



As I said, the jin was an intrinsic part of that design.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  coh on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:48 pm

Thanks for re-posting the virt...still think it works very well without the jin. I may even prefer it that way.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  JimLewis on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:58 pm

I'd go without it, too. FWIW.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  marcus watts on Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:55 pm

100x better without the jin at the top. It would still look good glued on to the other side of the tree though, and angled down............

cheers Marcus

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  fiona on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:13 pm

I actually can't quite picture that. If you have any spare time a rough virt would be most appreciated.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Orion on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:27 pm

Actually, I like the top jin just where it is; it, imho, adds a unique character to this tree. It's different now and if it's removed it'll look like many we've seen.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  fiona on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:19 pm

That would be my reasoning for reinstating it too Orion. But the jinless state is growing on me too.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Steven on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:00 pm

I have to say I too like the jins as they currently are, I feel the top jin gives it some unique, and the longer length of the lower jin on the left provides a better sense of balance to the tree, but just my opinion which only matters in my garden lol. Either way its a very nice juniper you should be proud.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  marcus watts on Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:57 am

fiona wrote:I actually can't quite picture that. If you have any spare time a rough virt would be most appreciated.

Hi Fiona,

this is the way i saw the tree - the movement is going back to the left, so lowest foliage and biggest jin on the left to match. Foliage on right shortened, shari continued on the upper trunk so the live vein is narrowed and improved further. Eventually a smaller pot too, but this is the same trunk/tree/pot you actually have, just straightened up a bit Very Happy



Just one of many ideas though, thats the beauty of bonsai Laughing

cheers Marcus

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  yamasuri on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:16 am

Marcus I like it this way. It gives great movement to the left side and match together better with overal crown.
Vlad

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  fiona on Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:08 pm

Interestingly, if you go back a few pages to Lukas's virtual, you are pretty much saying what he had in mind. And equally interesting, this was my own first thoughts on the movement through this tree way back two years ago.

Oh the possibilities. Very Happy

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  will baddeley on Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:51 pm

Far more difficult to add jin convincingly to the side grain as it is on end grain and the dead branch looks much too heavy in my opinion. I would go with the original position and Pavels left right canopy flow as it adds a little imbalance and tension and looks more unique than the well balanced top over root design. Good thread though Fi.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  marcus watts on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:21 pm

I find adding a jin to a juniper quite easy just about anywhere you want it - sharpen the end to a peg about 8-10mm, drill a hole in the tree the same size preferably through a live section of bark - remove a small circle of live bark from around the hole and insert / glue the jin. As the live section forms callous it swells and wraps around the jin left and right looking very natural.

Partly in the virt the jin is bright white (and very visible) while the other wood is aged due to the time between the 2 pictures the virt was made from, and at the end of the day it completely depends on personal taste as to whether you prefer a relaxed balanced image or a tense imbalanced one - both have their place in bonsai, although I can't help looking at an imbalanced tree and think there is often room for improvement.

I think if you totally style your own trees they often become a reflection of your own charactor and taste, and if you put a tree out there for other peoples ideas you end up liking the style that best matches your charactor. I guess if Fiona was imbalanced the cycling would be harder cheers cheers cheers Laughing Laughing

As you say Will, nice thread and nice to have the history of the tree forming.

Cheers Marcus

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  fiona on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:43 pm

The issue now is that the foliage has all been directed towards Pavel's design and while it may not quite get there, switching to the alternative is much more problematic, not to mention time-consuming.

I think it's all going to hinge on whether I wish to preserve that degree of "uniqueness" the long jin gives the tree.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  fiona on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:46 pm

marcus watts wrote: I guess if Fiona was imbalanced the cycling would be harder cheers cheers cheers Laughing Laughing
A good sports bra soon sorts that out. Wink Evil or Very Mad Wish it was as easy with designing a tree.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  marcus watts on Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:28 pm

haha, yes, i bet it does. Shocked

styling trees............what a mine field Razz - initially you have to totally love and 'want' the design you are working towards more than anything else. It's no good spending 5 years on a tree then wanting to change it or thinking it could look better another way! some of my trees have been on the benches 4 or 5 years before the design is eventually chosen. Realistically to grow the dropping branch on the left would take 5 or 6 years although I would approach graft one in place with a potted juniper if the tree were mine, then you could be wiring the pads while the graft was taking and 2 years would see it done.

The original jin makes my eyes do the opposite of cross eyed Shocked - one goes left and one goes up and right a bit- quite a weird feeling Smile Smile

bit of fun though - soon we'll have a thread titled "have you ever achieved a perfect photoshop virt with the actual tree".....? bit like an adobe hall of fame !!

cheers and best wishes - Marcus




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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Ricky Keaton on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:44 pm

What a great tool the virtual design software is it seems it would be a great help with people like myself that hasn't developed a wonderful design eye like several of the members do. I have a few trees that i have no clue which way to go with a design so maybe i should invest in a program and see if it helps. And in years to come maybe be in the adobe hall of fame haha!

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  JimLewis on Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:13 pm

Most of our "virtual design" software is in our graphics programs -- ranging from the very expensive Photoshop to the several decent free programs. I use PhotoFiltre; others have their favorites.

I sometimes use them while designing a tree -- taking pictures of the tree at various stages then playing with it, but to me, 2 dimensions does NOT turn into three -- at least not often.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  fiona on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:08 am

Just to show that you can post AFTER a thread has been moved to Progressions.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  corryvreckan on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:10 am

Confirmed, yes you can.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Gary Swiech on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:37 pm

Nice job fiona.

You have a nice juniper there and I can tell your not in any hurry.

I have some Shimpaku that need repotting and repositioning this Spring and this

thread is good for me to follow now since I don't repot them until late April.

Again, nice Shimpaku!

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Chris R on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:58 pm

What a truly stunning tree!
Really beautiful & skillful work. Smile
It looks SO natural which is half the attraction.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Neli on Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:37 pm

fiona wrote:The thread is nearly two years old - pretty much the timescale I'd set to let the tree recover after the heavy work it had back then. I'm aiming to get the tree into its final pot next spring, which is why I'm doing a bit more this year that the simple trim it had last summer.

Pavel's virt is on page 2 but here it is again:



As I said, the jin was an intrinsic part of that design.
Fiona I am a newbie, but I think that The lowest left branch should be longer to balance the tree and emphasize movement. I liked it better with the fuller crown.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Neli on Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:40 pm

Neli wrote:
fiona wrote:The thread is nearly two years old - pretty much the timescale I'd set to let the tree recover after the heavy work it had back then. I'm aiming to get the tree into its final pot next spring, which is why I'm doing a bit more this year that the simple trim it had last summer.

Pavel's virt is on page 2 but here it is again:



As I said, the jin was an intrinsic part of that design.
Fiona I am a newbie, but I think that The lowest left branch should be longer, following the direction of the jin to balance the tree and emphasize movement. I liked it better with the fuller crown.
I love the jin.
Could not find the edit button.

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Re: Juniper progression

Post  Bonsai Kas on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:10 am

Despite the fact that I regard Pavel as one of the true wiring and styling masters of europe. Pretty much every tree he posts here oozes of craftmanship and insight in Bonsai styling and I haven't seen a single tree he touched transform from a mere bush to a wonderful little tree with loads of style.
Despite this I am getting a bit tired of all these perfectly styled trees, that all look perfect, but also all look pretty much the same because of it. It tends to creep in that many of these perfectly styled trees have so much added 'character' that by doing so it numbs you a bit and they actually loose character and end up feeling like -just another "perfect" bonsai-.
I would go the Walter Pall route with this one. Lower a few branches a bit, give it a bit more space between the branches and keep it more natural without the glitter and culture of the perfectly placed and styled pads. More like what Marcus Watts proposed:
[quote="marcus watts"]
fiona wrote:

I think it will make for a much more interesting tree.
Just my two cents Wink
Beautiful material! It's such a shame material like that is soo hard/exensive to get here in Holland without the moors and nature to go tree hunting in. The only places in holland where you could hope to find a good wild Juniper or Jew are all nature reserves and there's no chance digging one up there without crossing the law.

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Re: Juniper progression

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