Pierneef (flat top) rain tree discouragement

Carlos,

I'm afraid we're both right. I was speaking of my own, personal experience with him, not on a larger business scale. Erik would a complete fool not to promote his business because it's his livelyhood. Are you saying "artists" shouldn't promote themselves or make money selling their products? This couldn't be the message you were going for, but to me this is how your message came across.

Your comments aren't constructive. I wanted to find out more about this style and how to advance it but it feels like you're on the attack, even though I indicated my questions were not aggressive.

Sam

Sam Ogranaja wrote:Carlos,

I'm afraid we're both right. I was speaking of my own, personal experience with him, not on a larger business scale. Erik would a complete fool not to promote his business because it's his livelyhood. Are you saying "artists" shouldn't promote themselves or make money selling their products? This couldn't be the message you were going for, but to me this is how your message came across.

Your comments aren't constructive. I wanted to find out more about this style and how to advance it but it feels like you're on the attack, even though I indicated my questions were not aggressive.

Sam

Are you saying "artists" shouldn't promote themselves or make money selling their products? This couldn't be the message you were going for, but to me this is how your message came across.

Well, when money is involved, art suffers. I am not saying that they can't live in harmony, but, generally speaking one or the other suffers.

As far as constructing a tree like this, it is not that complicated. Let's take your tree as an example. The current pot it is in will not spped the process for you. I recommend the following:

1) place it in a more than large pot

2) While you are at it, work the root structure as to have a proper nebari. Rain trees tend to have rootage similar to crabs claws, which are quite unsightly.

3) you tree has a basic shape, but if you want it to be of higher quality, growing it out will not be a bad idea

4) While the tree is in a big pot, most of the branches will grow erratically. This is not a bad thing with those branches that have to thicken. You can later remove the unwanted growth.

5) Mr.Nel's tree displays branching that was grown periodically. Using the main stem as reference, the main branches were allowed to grow in proportion with the trunk. Once the reached the desired girht, they were cut and the leads were replaced with young growth, wired into place and let grow freely. After this, the process of building the canopy consists of repeating this process.

6) What are the results of this? 1) Perfectly tapered and shaped branches. 2) Minimum to no wire scars.

7) On note: the fact that you have let the tree grow freely will create a strong root system. Remember, no good roots means no quality branching.

I hope this helps. I was not attacking you. There is not reason to.

I think we have agreed to disagree here on the point of what is a style and what is not. I also think that Carlos's last post did what both Sam and the original poster wanted which was advice and encouragement on how to progress their own trees to a good level.

I'd suggest that we now restrict responses - if we need any further - to the growing and styling issues as they relate to reg-i and Sam's trees. More general discussions on styles can always be the subject of a separate thread should anyone care to start one.

Reg-i & Sam, here is some inspiration for you guys:
http://www.google.co.za/search?q=umbrella+thorn&hl=en&biw=1399&bih=790&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=LN5gTrveOMKgmQXr49SKDg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CA4Q_AUoAQ

Thanks Carlos. Your advice truly helps give me a vision for the future.

Totally right Fiona.

Justin, those are very inspiring. It'd be awesome to see those tree in person. I'll have to use those for reference in the future.

By the way Reg-i, post some other pictures of your tree. I'm curious what the rest of it looks like.

Have a great weekend everyone!!!!!
Sam

Here's some other angles and another one im working on

That tree in the last picture is really pretty. Do these airlayer well? The top of this one looks like it could be a nice shohin sized tree, and the bottom has great potential too.

R

Russell Coker wrote:That tree in the last picture is really pretty. Do these airlayer well? The top of this one looks like it could be a nice shohin sized tree, and the bottom has great potential too.

R

Russell,

Yes, these trees air layer well. In my climate, I might be able to root the whole top as a cutting, fairly quickly too.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

Here's some pics of my other tree since I repotted it i'm not going to do any work to it till it settles in I had some drainage issue with it and I didn't notice til it was to late its fine now but I want it healthier cause it hasn't put any new growth out in awhile also I would like to share some seedling photos they grow so dam fast the 2 photos in the same spot are only a month apart. Is there anyone on here with a large seeding tree handy that I might be able to purchase some. I know some of you guys in Brazil probably throw them away




ONE MONTH LATER ...........

They do air layer very well here is a 1.5 month old one

You're totally right they do grow like weeds. Those are some big trees. I wish I had trees that big. Thanks for posting the additional pictures.

Please keep us in the loop of your development.
Have a great week!!!
Sam

Its really coming along

Wow it is coming along. It's crazy how fast these grow. You'll be there in no time.

In your last picture of Erik's tree, in the background, there is an umbrella top Raintree. It used to be part of his big Raintree forest he had, but had to dismantle it because some of the trees (this one in particular) got too big for the composition. It has a really straight trunk like yours but Erik has leaned his a bit. Have you thought about doing that? The only reason I ask is because the trunk appears so straight. It's so tough to photograph raintrees though because of their fluting.

Keep it up and keep posting pictures.
Have a great week!!!
Sam

The photograph with all those small pots is showing airlayers, hardwood cuttings or seedlings?

those are all seedlings I started 7 or 8 months ago

Sam Ogranaja wrote:Wow it is coming along. It's crazy how fast these grow. You'll be there in no time.

In your last picture of Erik's tree, in the background, there is an umbrella top Raintree. It used to be part of his big Raintree forest he had, but had to dismantle it because some of the trees (this one in particular) got too big for the composition. It has a really straight trunk like yours but Erik has leaned his a bit. Have you thought about doing that? The only reason I ask is because the trunk appears so straight. It's so tough to photograph raintrees though because of their fluting.

Keep it up and keep posting pictures.
Have a great week!!!
Sam

I have pics of the forest and the tree your talking about the lean on that tree looks really natural with the way the curves go, was it also leaning in the forest?

reg-i wrote:Here's some pics of my other tree since I repotted it i'm not going to do any work to it till it settles in I had some drainage issue with it and I didn't notice til it was to late its fine now but I want it healthier cause it hasn't put any new growth out in awhile also I would like to share some seedling photos they grow so dam fast the 2 photos in the same spot are only a month apart. Is there anyone on here with a large seeding tree handy that I might be able to purchase some. I know some of you guys in Brazil probably throw them away




ONE MONTH LATER ...........

Hello. How many seeds did you put on each pot? And what type of substrate did you use? Inorganic?
Thanks, Manos.

reg-i wrote:those are all seedlings I started 7 or 8 months ago

Thank you for your answer!

reg-i wrote:

Sam Ogranaja wrote:Wow it is coming along. It's crazy how fast these grow. You'll be there in no time.

In your last picture of Erik's tree, in the background, there is an umbrella top Raintree. It used to be part of his big Raintree forest he had, but had to dismantle it because some of the trees (this one in particular) got too big for the composition. It has a really straight trunk like yours but Erik has leaned his a bit. Have you thought about doing that? The only reason I ask is because the trunk appears so straight. It's so tough to photograph raintrees though because of their fluting.

Keep it up and keep posting pictures.
Have a great week!!!
Sam

I have pics of the forest and the tree your talking about the lean on that tree looks really natural with the way the curves go, was it also leaning in the forest?

Wow for some reason I remembered that tree to have a bolt straight trunk, but you're right, the lean looks very natural, to me anyway. I think it was leaned in the forest as well. I don't remember the trunk having that much character, but I haven't seen that tree in at least a year.

The more I see these pictures, the more I wish their canopies were higher to show off some of the branching. What do you think?

Have a great week!!
Sam

theres only one per pot and there in a turface,pine bark mix soil and perlite, they where started in smaller pots

Hey Regi,

Do you have any current development pictures worthy of being shown? Just curious.

Have a great weekend!!!
Sam

sorry I didn't see this till now but I will take some pics tomorrow there has been alot of development thanks for the interest

reg-i wrote:sorry I didn't see this till now but I will take some pics tomorrow there has been alot of development thanks for the interest

Definitely. I have a couple of raintrees myself. I'd love to get a female to be able to have some flowers. I only have 2 thorny males. I'm looking forward to the pics, especially after seeing your 10 month old seedlings. It is ridiculous how fast these things grow.

I thought that Raintrees had complete flowers (I think that is the term) that there is no need for two trees.

I think your lack of seed may be related to growing season and climate.

your right they both seed you dont need one or the other well I dont know about the thornless one I havn't personally seen it seed i've noticed that when I take airlayers off my bigger ones the layers flower and seed even if the mother plant is not