Red or Black Pine?

Hi all

Can anyone help me in identifying a pine?

I recently aquired this one, but upon closer inpsection I'm not sure whether it's a Japanese Red Pine (Pinus Densiflora) or a Japanese Black Pine (Pinus Thunbergii), or even something different?! This photo shows the bark. The needles are in pairs. Any help gratefully received!

Can't seem to upload the photo...



Photo uploaded! (found the tutorial!)

its the needles we will need to see !

Ah, thank you.

Everything I've found only talks about the bark, so I guessed that was the main method of telling the difference.

Photo of the needles to follow. Appreciate your help!

I don't know that I have seen a Red Pine, but both bark and needles look like the Black Pines I have.

black

Pinus thunbergi - J B P. Stiff needles are the key.

Thanks Guys!

Really appreciate the answers (and the reasoning, so I can recognise for myself in the future)

When I bought it, it was described as a Red, but wasn't sure when I saw it. However, I feel in love with the trunk, bark and nebari, so decided to go for it anyway.

Here starts many years of pinching to get it back in shape...

Rob Kempinski wrote:Pinus thunbergi - J B P. Stiff needles are the key.

Rob is right. If the needles are stiff and hurt when you touch them, you got a Black pine. If they're softer, you got a Red pine. I love my Red pine, the needles are so much softer.

Have a great weekend everyone!!!
Sam

here's some images to help you with the difference between japanese red and black pines. The red has thinner needles that are brighter in color. The bend easily to the touch. The bud sheath is red. Red pine branches are stiffer, so care should be taken when bending. I've found them to be better producers of adventitious buds than black pine (maybe it's my luck). I've pruned terminal buds on branches in late winter, expecting them to die. Instead, the branches put out a new set of buds during the growing season that resemble the "second flush" after candle cutting... I use red pine for grafting to ponderosa pine. It's nice:)

I've found them to be better producers of adventitious buds than black pine

I second that.