Bonsai ? Suiseki ? Which Art is the oldest form? & THANKS to everyone...

H Everyone,
I am relatively new to the forum who join late this year.I certainly gain a lot from viewing threads from All specially to the Moderator & other resource individual.IBC has made bond across all regions lovers of these Arts..Bonsa & Suiseki etc...Let me say THANK YOU you everyone.
I would also like to make a litlle survey to each of you which art is more close to your heart & why you like them the most?Thanks for the advance reply & Merry Christmas to All & Many More TREES & STONE new year to come

Keep Well Everyone May God Bless All of you
Alex/Ogie

Bonsai. I have something of a geology background, so you'd think it was rocks, but rocks is rocks.

Hiyay Alex,

love those trees in nature, and wish I could take them all home. Bonsai

Have a Merry Jolly Christmas, and hopefully Santa will give you a yixing pot [ or teapot .] Ho ho ho.
Khaimraj -- oh silent night, the stars are brightly ................

Hi Alex,
Happy Holidays to you and yours!
After thinking about your question "What art came first bonsai or suiseki?" I have to say suiseki.
Suiseki, IMHO, is a more "exacting" form of Viewing Stones in general. That said, I started thinking about why people collect stones.
My answer is "...because they like them...." (No genius here ) So, because people like stones (for various reasons), it is not too far fetched to reason, that, people have been collecting pretty stones for as long as humans have been picking up rocks. I think horticulture began long after the time that people have been collecting rocks.

For the scholars among us, I guess another approach to your question would be "...whatever was documented the earliest; such as, in the tombs, scrolls, engravings, etc.

Just my thoughts. Great question.
Todd

Well, Ogie asked which "art" came first . . . but Todd hit the nail directly on its head by stating that . . .

it is not too far fetched to reason, that, people have been collecting
pretty stones for as long as humans have been picking up rocks.

. . . and I have to wonder if finding a "pretty stone" or finding a stone that reminds you of something else -- an animal, a person, a landscape -- makes that piece of rock a piece of ART. (Chris is groaning in agony here, because we've been here and done this before to no real result.)

The dictionary definitions of art seem to require the making of something that has aesthetic value -- "the conscious use of skill and creative imagination . . . in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced." (Webster's 10th)

I WILL grant the artistic display of stones, but not the stones themselves, but whether that's enough to raise Suiseki and viewing stones to an art in an of itself, I sincerely doubt.

I think a point could be made that the many stones which have been "worked", are a type of sculture, which is art. And certainly daiza, stands, bases, etc are made.
This is a great thread. Since I'm fairly new to IBC, I haven't read the suiseki as art debate. Something to ponder now that Winter is here.
Salut, Todd

Hi Ogie... If lucky, Robert Baran will reply to your question. His extensive online Magical Miniature Landscapes [linked HERE] including "A Suggested Timeline for the Development of Magical Miniature Landscapes [linked HERE]" is among the best sources for verifying early practices. He notes original sources for his timeline & has debunked several mistaken notions re' early practices.

Hi Jim,Todd,Khaimraj & Chris.
Thank you for the response and something for us to ponder Again Merry Christmas to ALL
Regards.
Alex