Lonicera Updates...

Hello All,
I have been lurking around here for a few months reading and looking, but this is my first real post. I am very much a newbie to bonsai, although I do have quite a bit of experience with plants and horticulture and have been playing around with bonsai for a couple of years. My question is about a recently collected wild honeysuckle. At least I'm pretty sure it is honeysuckle. It came out with many fine roots and a nice nebari although you can't see it in the picture. Here's a pic.


I am wondering if I should remove the suckers growing from the thick roots. On one hand I was thinking that they would aid in the production of new roots and provide over all strength to the tree, on the other hand I thought that they might draw energy from the main trunk and slow its growth. All in all it seems to be doing well and is producing new buds from the main trunk. I don't plan to do any work on it until at least next season, when I plan to reduce the trunk and begin a branch structure. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks

Todd

What you have is probably either L. morrowii, with yellowish flowers, or L. tatarica, with pink flowers. They are used in Europe for bonsai, but rarely here. Bill Valavanis has a L. morrowii bonsai. The bonsai of this type are generally grown with a single trunk, but its natural habit is a clump.
In this case, I am not so sure your main trunk is alive. You had better wait & make sure the trunk is alive & healthy before you cut anything off. If it is dead, go with the clump style. I think it has a certain charm.
By the way, when it sets fruit, keep it caged or netted & try not to let the birds get the berries. These two species are noxious invasive weeds & should not be allowed to spread.
Iris

Iris,
Thank you for your reply. I'm sure you are right about the species as where ever I see them growing they are in a serious clump. I believe the main trunk is living, as it has quite a few new buds growing from the bottom to about 3/4 of the way up. But either way I plan to let it grow freely for a while. This species really seems to be rampant around where I live and it also seems quite hard to kill, so I have no qualms digging them up and playing around. Thanks for your knowledge and help.

Todd

Hello Todd - judging by your location and by the bark on your tree, I think this is more likely Lonicera maackii, the all-conquering bush honeysuckle we have here in the Midwest. I had an entire back yard overgrown (I'm talking 20 feet tall around the entire perimeter of the yard) with this stuff and dug out a few impressive stumps.

I don't think you need to worry about the vigor of the tree, and there is no other reason to leave those suckers in place, I wouldn't think, unless you're trying to fatten up bits of the nebari.

I've found that the tree tends to want to send out long spindly arching branches most of the time. I wouldn't fall in love with too many branches, because they seem to come back or not each Spring depending upon whether they feel like it or not. If they don't come back, they tend to throw out two or three new buds right about where the old branch was, though, and they grow quickly. I seem to have the most luck working to design shohin-sized trees with clipped clumps of branches close to the trunk. I think you could almost get away with using a new batch of branches each year on an impressive stump and still have a good tree. Mine remind me of old crabapples we have around here, and I am aiming that direction with my styling, and they might look their best leafless and in berry. I have found that they will take some wiring, but the insides of the branches are hollow, so you have to bend carefully so they do not snap.

I can't find anything about this particularly type of honeysuckle online, and I'm still kind of making it up as I go along, as you can see. Just my thoughts. [Disclaimer: All of these comments come from someone who doesn't know much about bonsai. Use these comments at your own risk.] Sorry for being a bit long-winded.

Hey,
Thanks for the info. Through doing some research on the Maackii and Morrowii varieties I find it hard to tell as the growth patterns and leaf structure is quite similar. I will have to wait until the ones around here begin flowering to decide. Either way they both seem to be fast growing pest varieties. They seem to grow almost everywhere around my area. This makes me want to dig up a few more and play around with them. I will feel much less guilt if I kill them. Once more buds on the trunk begin to form and extend I will cut off the suckers, I don't feel that they are necessary but I will still wait a month or so. From the wild specimens that I have looked at the branches as you say do die back and sprout new buds rather arbitrarily. I plan to really only wire the green shoots to create shape and most use clip and grow techniques. Thanks for the response it is quite helpful.

Todd

Hey All,
I thought I would post an update on this Lonicera variety I collected early this spring. I am interested in getting feedback on its progression. I am hoping that next season it will grow some lower branching, but other than that I am relatively happy with its progress so far. I will re-pot next spring if all goes well. I was thinking a shallow oval with a color that accents the bark color.
1. Which side makes the better front?
2. Pot ideas? Oval, Rectangle? Color?

What I see as the best front.

The other side.

Close up on the trunk base.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Todd

It looks like as the upper photo shows the better front. From all point of views I think you need to remove the Jin completely. Your tree looks healthy and great.

I envy your luck, as I am trying for years to find a Lonicera suitable for bonsai, since the species common here usually doesn't produce thick trunks and is crawling on the ground and trees.

Ami,
Thanks, I am happy with its growth. Although I would like a lower branch or two. I have planned on carving the jin back to just a very small sump, I also wan to carve out the upper section hear the trunk chop. There are many very large lonicera in my area and they are very easy to collect. Good luck with your hunt. Any thoughts on a pot?

Todd

Todd,
I'd rather wait [with choosing the pot] for the tree to develop and gain it's silhouette. It seems as if eventually a shallow oval or rectangular one will fit.

Todd,
I'd rather wait [with choosing the pot] for the tree to develop and gain it's silhouette. It seems as if eventually a shallow oval or rectangular one will fit.

hi todd, before I came to thailand I lived in england and we use lonicera a lot for bonsai, but we use lonicera nitida which has a very small leaf , its a cultivated variety used in gardens and only makes a small bush . If the one you,v got grow wild in your area I would have a look around and see if you can find one with a big dramatic trunk cos they transplant easy, bud back well and are good for carving. A bonsai artist from england called john hanby had a really nice one that was in one of the gingko books and was featured in an article by peter adams in bonsai europe mag see if you can find it online it would give you some inspiration. regards john .

I collected these two in Blooming Grove NY 8 or 9 years ago. They make great bonsai.
Very care free and vigorous. To keep it growing strongly they need to be repotted often, Yearly or every other year at least.
A 2006

A 2010
B Trunk closeup Fall 09

B Spring 2010

I agree with Ami don't rush it into a pot, develop the tree first, get the branch structure started carve the deadwood, you'll need heavy duty tools the wood is very, very hard. You can peal the otter bark off to see whats alive and whats not.

I could go on and on but typing is a lot of work for me as I stink at it.
There is a great book that covers this tree.
Nick Lenz's Bonsai From the wild it's available at Rock Beacon (stone lantern)

A glazed oval pot would be best in a color that works with the flowers.

I've got to get a new pot for my first tree the one it's in is just a training pot.

jersanct wrote:Hello Todd - judging by your location and by the bark on your tree, I think this is more likely Lonicera maackii, the all-conquering bush honeysuckle we have here in the Midwest.

Sorry to disagree, but L. maackii has distinctly pointed leaves. It doesn't really matter, because all three species are from the same part of the world and have similar habits.
Iris

Ami BAS wrote:I am trying for years to find a Lonicera suitable for bonsai, since the species common here usually doesn't produce thick trunks and is crawling on the ground and trees.

I would be very surprised if one of the Asiatic bush honeysuckles hasn't sneaked into Israel by now. I don't know how strict your import regulations are, but maybe somebody can bring you one. If not, many woody vines can be staked upright until the trunk thickens enough to stand on its own. Try it with your honeysuckle.
Iris

Hey all,
Doug I love the gnarly trunk on the second tree, but they are both very nice.I have found a huge gnarly trunk that I think I might try to get out next spring. I also have found some other smaller though still rather large pieces that I will try as well. Any tips for over wintering these? will mulching it in be enough or should I bring it into the unheated garage?

Iris I have noticed at least three varieties growing in the area, either having pink, yellow, or pale yellowish white flowers. They also have three distinct leaf types roundish ovate, ovatate with a pointed tip, and elongated with a pointed tip. This year I have just been observing the different varieties, but next year as they flower I plan to carry a note book and take notes on the specifics of each and some sketches.

I am really not trying to rush it into a pot, but it has now filled the tub it is in with root mass and it grows extremely fast. New buds on the branches extend daily and I am constantly pinching back apical shoots hoping to get some lower budding from the trunk. I have now tied down most of the branches to lower the foliage mass and create a better structure for the canopy. I will photograph it soon and show you the progress. Really I was trying to get some thoughts about what style of pot the trunk says to others. I have also been thinking shallow oval, although I am leaning more towards unglazed with a lighter colored clay. I plan to spend the winter figuring out and buying a pot for it, then pot it next spring if it continues as it has. Thanks for all the feedback.

Todd

Doug I love the gnarly trunk on the second tree, but they are both very nice.I have found a huge gnarly trunk that I think I might try to get out next spring. I also have found some other smaller though still rather large pieces that I will try as well. Any tips for over wintering these? will mulching it in be enough or should I bring it into the unheated garage?

For flowers I let the shoots grow, the trees were a little wide well a lot wide, I trimmed them back pretty hard after flowering and still got afew berrys.
A tip for collecting big ones, bring a cordless sawsall, these grow roots like willows and olives, no need to collect a large rootball just cut around the tree and pop it out.

I live in western Mass. in zone 6 , when these were in training boxes I just pushed them up against my hedge where they had some wind protection but that was all. Now that they are in pots I find space in my cold frame. more out of concern for pots then for the tree.



Doug

Just an updated photo of the progress so far. once it goes dormant I will prune it back to only what I want to keep and by next season it should be looking much better.

Next season I plan on collecting a couple more as they are quite easy to collect and very fast growers.

Todd