California Juniper just repotted

This Cal Juniper stands 17 inches tall above the rim of the Sara Rayner pot.
I am working to develop the foliage pads to be show ready by late spring.

I like the composition but is it refined enough for showing?

[quote=" is it refined enough for showing?[/quote]

That is the question. With a vigorus growing season, and a good wiring job, by June it may be show worthy.

mike page wrote:[quote=" is it refined enough for showing?

That is the question. With a vigorus growing season, and a good wiring job, by June it may be show worthy.[/quote]
It's very difficult for us in the UK, to judge how fast your trees grow over the pond. The reason I made my original statement is.. the branches are very young. I would say 5-10 years of refinement on this tree before it is at show standard. Worth the wait I think

Here's what I would say about "...5-10 years of refinement...": it might look like it just came from the hair dresser. Personally, I think a bonsai can be given tooo much refinement.

Not criticizim...just personal taste...

Pat...maybe I should mount my trusty steed, and go riding off, wildly, in all directions...

Pat, not wishing to usurp Wills comments, Will believes that the tree is simply not mature enough as a bonsai to be exhibited.

We have had many years of exhibiting trees/bonsai in Europe that are not 'ready' to show, and now the bar has raised in having trees selected for exhibition... thereby elevating the whole quality of the display.

This is taking nothing away from Mikes tree, just that if it was to be considered for a show in the UK it would need to developed a lot more... that's all

"I think a bonsai can be given tooo much refinement"

I have yet to see a tree with too much refinement, I have seen many trees that are styled with pom-poms and look like trimmed poodles.

[quote="Tony"]

We have had many years of exhibiting trees/bonsai in Europe that are not 'ready' to show, and now the bar has raised in having trees selected for exhibition... thereby elevating the whole quality of the display.

It is an exciting time to be part of U.K. bonsai shows. Wil my trees ever catch up? Time will tell.

Tony wrote: Will believes that the tree is simply not mature enough as a bonsai to be exhibited.
We have had many years of exhibiting trees/bonsai in Europe that are not 'ready' to show, and now the bar has raised in having trees selected for exhibition... thereby elevating the whole quality of the display.

This is a problem with club shows, how to have enough participation, yet put on a quality show. How do you do this without angering somebody?
Iris

Hhmmm, club shows! Having been involved with them in the past, it is always difficult to ... raise the standard and involve everyone. I fully understand that not everyone wants to exhibit at a national level, but there is no reason why our trees can't reach those standards.
A section in a show that has work in progress, is a boon and educational for new club members or the public.
As I said in my first post, I like the composition and I see a great tree in the future

What do folk who keep/create bonsai want? I am struggling to respond to this thread as we have covered this topic so many times.

I understand that showing in an international show may be aiming to high for many, and fear of rejection puts many off.

David Barlow (a student who at the time I have worked with for 6 years) was so sure that his Beech raft would not be selected for the last Gingko Award left it to me to submit the tree, he did not even go to the show… he won one of the awards.

I am convinced that with the correct teaching, working with good material and being open to new ideas most individuals can have bonsai worthy of the best exhibitions anywhere in the world.

What is wrong with reaching for the moon, if you miss you will still be amongst the stars.

Well, the only show I'm aware of that will be occuring in late spring, is the National Exhibition being held in upstate New York. Is this what your planning Mike?

Hi Mike.

Very interesting tree.
I tried a simple virtual. I hope it does not matter.

pic.1 tree next ..??? year

peter wrote:Well, the only show I'm aware of that will be occuring in late spring, is the National Exhibition being held in upstate New York. Is this what your planning Mike?

Peter
I'm getting the tree ready for a local club show. I'm well aware that it's a long ways from being ready for an important show like the National. Having attended the last one, I know the quality of the entrys. At this time, I don't have anything ready for that level.

Mike

Pavel... someones been working on their PhotoShop skills... Nice Virtual my Friend.

But can you make it look like this! (throws down gauntlet)



Tony

Hi Tony, your virtual is great, but i didn't make it in PhotoShop, i made it in basic Windows drawing programe.

Hey Pavel
Bloody good job on the virtual very nice work. That would be a nice image to work towards. And will is right about the development and refinement of the tree imo. Nice tree with a good future.

Eric.

Pavel Slovák wrote:Hi Tony, your virtual is great, but i didn't make it in PhotoShop, i made it in basic Windows drawing programe.

oooops

Tony

Nice tree, Mike. I like Pavel's virtual too, with a subtle adjustment of the first branch. Aren't we critical.. Hope you don't mind.

I would not emphasize the branch on the lower left.

G'day Tony...

Thank you for your response to my post...

I have the highest respect for your knowledge and skills...and, I have been following your posts for a number of years...and I am fully aware that Bonsai Europe is far ahead of Bonsai USA, and that there MIGHT be two shows in the USA that are moving slowly toward closing that gap.

But, please, remember that I said "...Not criticizim...just personal taste...". Further, everything that I post here is my opinion unless I clearly state otherwise.

So, my friend, keep up the good work.

Pat...mounted on my trusty steed, riding off, wildly, in all directions...

bonsaistud wrote:....and I am fully aware that Bonsai Europe is far ahead of Bonsai USA,

??? Not really IMHO

"I am fully aware that Bonsai Europe is far ahead of Bonsai USA, and that there MIGHT be two shows in the USA that are moving slowly toward closing that gap." BS

Bonsaistud,
I see that you live in San Francisco and yet you have never been to a BIB exhibit until this weekend AFTER you made this authoritative statement. You also mention that you have never met Boon. It does seem odd that you do not even know about the fine Artists and Exhibitons in your own backyard and yet you feel confident to make that statement.
I am curious now. Did you attend the 1st US National Exhibition held in October 2008 or have you purchased the Exhibition Album to study? I also wonder how many private collections and Artists you have visited to help form this opinion? Have you attended any of the fine public Bonsai displays or other major Exhibitions? I guess I also wonder about your European experiences as well. You seem to be quite familiar with them.
I would be interested in how the Bonsai are "far ahead" of the Bonsai in the USA.
Have you heard of KINBON? They are the leading Bonsai publication in the world. In the September 2009 issue they had an article and photos of the 1st US National Exhibition. In the review, they praised Bonsai in the USA and compared them favorably to Japanese Bonsai.
Have you read the latest Bonsai Focus, the leading European Bonsai Publication? They interviewed Mr.Keizo Ando who is currently in Europe teaching since April 2008 at the famous European Bonsai School Scuola d" Arte Bonsai. Interesting man, was taught by Mr. Hamano in the 60s', Kimura's teacher. Here are few quotes which may surprise you. "Europe is still making its first steps in Bonsai". "Looking at many trees the European students bring, the Japanese would say" It will never become a Bonsai"." "I am especially surprised by all those huge Yamadori, most of them are much to big". When asked "have you seen beautiful trees in Europe?" he answered " I have not seen very beautiful trees yet; in Japan people are very demanding-concerning the quality of needles,for instance".
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
My opinion is that there are many fine Artists, Bonsai and Shows in the Europe and the USA and we all continue to improve.

Mark

Mark, I could'nt agree more but calm down . I don't think there is any difference in the quality of trees in Europe or the USA,and see no benefit in trying to out do each other. We are all making leaps and bounds in the creation of beautiful trees
As far as the comments made in Bonsai Europe, regarding workshop trees. Alot of students tend to take material of a lesser quality for some reason and expect the master to polish a turd!
We are ALL heading in the right direction

To bring this back to Mike’s tree.......and the virtual(s) that folks have made....
IMHO I think that too much foliage on this tree as in Tony’s and Pavel’s virts would be too much. Looking at the tree, with the true signs of a long hard struggle against mother natures elements (the many basal jins, shari and top), I think it would tell the story better with less.
Cheers G
p.s. I think the other discussion here is a misunderstanding of a local show compared too a regional or national exhibit, which to me are completely different and thus the quality of trees could/would be just as different.

Pavel Slovák wrote:Hi Mike.

Very interesting tree.
I tried a simple virtual. I hope it does not matter.

pic.1 tree next ..??? year

Gee, I don't know...all the branches look the same!

I would encourage any club holding a show to include a "Potensai" sectiobn so that those with trees in training (and not in bonsai pots) can be viewed and critiqued. Another use for the potentsai section is to show those interested in starting bonsai, that you just don't START with show trees, but have to invest some time and creativity during the process.

Even our best bonsai growers have projects that can be used for educational purposes.

Probably the best place to get comments on progressing trees would be your regular club meetings and workshop, escpecially if you stick to bringing trees that fit into the schedule of the meeting.

As for me, I have yet to "show" a tree, but I have brought in progressing stock for comments and advise.

Jay