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European Larch Yamadori 2020

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Post  JanG. Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:19 pm

Well, here is my larch that I digged in spring 2020. Another tree that I will possibly turn into a bonsai - if I will be lucky enough Very Happy
Because the trunk was quite thick and after one year it got thicken more even in this 9,2l container, I just had to bend it now. This is my very first wiring, I know that it has several issues, because I have already seen how the correct wiring should look like and also I could feel it. But as Peter Chan says - you will learn ho ti wire the tree by the practice.

First - I should center the tree, because if not, then there is limitation in the ways how you can put the wire into the soil.
Second - it seems to me that I wired it more tightly than I wanted to (and I should bend it during placing the wire, because it is more effective).
Third - this 5mm wire turned out not to be strong enough by the base of the tree. Double the wire is possibility, but there are some brunches that I would like to keep - if possible. So there is no place for another wire.

Because larches are quite vigorous trees, I guess that I will have to remove it quite soon. I will see...
So I hope that next time I will make it more professionally.
I still have 7,5mm wire, so even next year it should be possible to bend it again and make some corrections.

Also I plan to put it in larger container. I cannot put it into the ground during growing season, because I have no place where to plant it. We grow some vegetables or flowers in the garden and therefore there is just no free space. In autumn it doesn't matter, because it is after the harvests. So I am gonna buy 37l containers. It has diameter 45cm and it will have to be good enough.

Well, that's it.
I hope that it will grow well and I will be posting here photos as it will develop.

European Larch Yamadori 2020 Img_2027

Lack of movement - I belive I will be able to correct it next time. Also it is going to be cut back in two or three years - maybe into 1/3, so I can solve it later with the new growth...
European Larch Yamadori 2020 Img_2028

This looks - strange  Very Happy  Hopefully I will make it better next time.
European Larch Yamadori 2020 Img_2026
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Post  Marty Weiser Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:55 am

Actually your wire spacing looks fairly good. I think you might be in good shape for the movement if you bend the middle of the tree to the left below the branch that comes out to the left and then straighten the wire at the top slightly to bring that bit back to the right. You will have two larger branches on the insides of curves to remove, but you can allow them to contribute to the growth for a year or two. Also remember to make sure you put in some front-to-back movement. Overall a very good start.

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Post  JanG. Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:29 am

Thank you Smile
I made some small corrections. If everything goes well, I will improove it more with the next wiring.
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Post  oldman Sat May 01, 2021 12:42 am

This is a good beginning.  Since your conversation has been about movement of the tree, have you considered increasing the degree of slant where the trunk enters the soil?  No wire needed, yet you can accentuate your prior bends and, perhaps, revise some of them if you put more angle on the trunk entering the ground.  Of course the surface nebari should be taken into account.  This young larch will probably easily consent to adjusting the surface roots.  Very good material and very good start.

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Post  oldman Sat May 01, 2021 12:48 am

Additionally, after more examination, you have some leverage that can be applied without using wire.  Guide wires can be attached to the supple part of the trunk and then connected to the plastic container by making a wire hole at the top of the container.  Apply pressure from the top of the tree and tighten up the wire slack and secure the wire for a permanent bend without fear of wire marks. The uppermost major division or 'Y' junction would be a good place for this intervention, as this part of the tree is more supple because it is thinner now.  Of course, use portions of hose rubber to place padding under the wire on top of the branch that you are exerting force on and you will do well.

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Post  oldman Sat May 01, 2021 1:04 am

You mentioned placing the larch in the ground. I'm assuming that you mean that you want the trunk to thicken more(?) You can construct a grow box that would be, perhaps, 6"X22"X22". This will control your nebari growth, as well as allow the trunk room to thicken more.

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Post  Marty Weiser Sat May 01, 2021 1:20 am

If you decide to go with the grow box approach I suggest not upsizing them too much at once. I like to increase the soil volume by a factor of 2 - 4 each time so the roots have time to colonize the new soil fairly quickly. Not sure of the size of the current pot, but my guess in on the order of 15 cm square and perhaps 20 deep. In 2022 I would look for box that is about 25-30 cm square and 12 - 15 cm deep. That is factor of 2 - 3 or less, but starts to get the root pad spreading. The larger 22" (55 cm) square box would come along in about 2026-28 based upon my approach with box that is on the 35-45 cm square size in between.

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European Larch Yamadori 2020 Empty centimeters vs inches

Post  oldman Sat May 01, 2021 3:36 pm

I was thinking in inches. Oops.

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Post  JanG. Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:12 am

You are right, increasing the slant will help. I had it on my mind during this repot. Next time I will work with it again.

I hope that the tree will produce more roots. Actually I would like to get more surface roots and I will have to study how to make it properly. When the larch can be air layered, it should be possible to encourage producing new roots by scratching the surface at the base - in the soil. But I guess it needs to be done correctly, else it could be not effective.
Also trimming the roots should help, so next time I will focus on it. I have heard that removing 1/3 of the roots (in spring) is quite safe with any tree.

Making a grow box is good idea. I will go for it. It is really because I want to thicken the trunk.
I think that dimensions of current container are 15cm x 15cm x 26cm, so it has about 6l volume. However grow box will be better, because it really needs to be more flat than deep Smile Thank you for the tips.
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Post  oldman Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:35 pm

There are many ways to increase the impression of nebari(surface roots). One method is to place a ceramic tile directly under the base of the tree and plant it like that. This encourages the nebari to push upward as the roots regrow. The downward growing central roots will push against the tile and elevate the nebari(theoretically).

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Post  Marty Weiser Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:06 am

I agree that planting on a tile can help force the root spread. However, I find that with larch potting in a shallower pot/box is just as good or better. Given the current pot size I would think in terms of a 30 cm square or round that is about 13 - 15 cm deep. However, if there are good roots in the top 8 - 10 cm of the current soil (or roots that can easily be lifted into that region) can use a pot in that depth range (or just use the bottom of the available pot). I have found that larch tend to like a little deeper and a bit more soil capacity. Finally, the best time to repot a larch is just as the buds start to show a little bit of green in the center. If they are fully green it is getting too late.

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European Larch Yamadori 2020 Empty 2,5 month and the wire has already bit in the bark

Post  JanG. Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:31 am

Well,
I knew it can happen Very Happy I thought I will be able to avoid that. Apparently I neglected it.
The wire got bitten in the bark in places where there was a higher pressure. So next time I will have to remove the wire sooner. Or maybe it could happen because I tighten the wire too much.
I must be more careful in the future.
You know - new experiences... Smile
I hope that it will get better after some time. It is a young unfinished tree. And if the marks won't disappear, I will just work with it.
It will be a memory of my learning process  Very Happy

European Larch Yamadori 2020 Img_2031

European Larch Yamadori 2020 Img_2032
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Post  Marty Weiser Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:02 pm

The wire marks will disappear in a few years. Larch can thicken quite a bit and develop textured bark. Both will make a difference.

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Post  Gorilla Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:29 am

You got good eye for movement.
I think this tree is going to have awesome trunk movement one day.
What kind of a soil it was growing when you collected it?

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European Larch Yamadori 2020 Empty It gets recovered very well. Maybe too much :D

Post  JanG. Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:30 pm

The scars are disappearing, but so does the shape Very Happy  
I expected that it will tend to get straighten after removing the wire, but I am surprised again, because it is quite significant.  Very Happy  I should put the wire back on it, however I am not sure if it's not too early. But I guess that if I place it different way and avoid the rest of remaining scars, it will be OK.

Also I will have to put the guide wire (or guide wires) on top of the tree to pull it down as it was mentioned in the coments above. Then the wire around the trunk shouldn't bite into the bark as much, because the pressure will be better distributed (hopefully).

And original soil was quite rocky. Clay and rocks. I collected it from the slope around the road which was built several years ago. Therefore it has that bend at the base.
Now it has peat moss around the roots and the rest is substrate for pines I bought in garden center (organic, combination of some composted bark, wood and peat - for pines means more acid, I think that larches like it as well) mixed with river gravel and zeolite (fraction 4-8mm) in a ratio of 1:1:1
I think that it could be grown fully in organic soil at this stage, but you know, I'm trying things... Cool

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Post  Marty Weiser Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:49 pm

Put the wire back on in the opposite winding direction and make the bends more pronounced than you want. You may even want to use heavier wire. Larch are very resilient - they will heal the small scars you have, they can be bent quite a bit, and the spring back a bit once the wire is removed. If you watch the trunk over the next few weeks you will most likely find that the current wire scars are becoming less visible and that the new wire is starting to bite in a bit. It needs to bite in a little help set the bends, but not too much. If it is biting in too much, take it off and reapply in the original direction between the current scars.

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