Water restrictions in force in California

The Governor announced today a 25% water restriction. So what can be suggested to best use this valuable resource for the benefit of our trees.
It's been a mild winter on the west coast of America, most of the repotting has long ago been accomplished. So deeper pots, and a more organic soil mix is not any kind of option. Many of my japanese hobby friends there also have Koi. So it makes me cringe thinking about not having access to plenty of water...any and all
ideas on how best to use/restrict/recycle should be suggested here..

Dick,

our annual Drought restrictions start on May 5th, and if we are lucky rains will follow by June/July. Anything less than 15 cm [ 6" ] is considered to be drought in Trinidad, and I live in one of the drier zones. we have roughly six months of rain, but heavy clay soils, and mostly 5 - 6" per month.

I hand water twice a day, morning and evening, and have 2, 400 gallon rainwater tank. During our rains a lot of roof water is wasted, so I will be going to a 2000 gallon tank or 2.
There are plans afoot to give the entire island of 2 million people [ size of London ] water 24 hours a day, I forsee much trouble in the next few years.

I can also hand water with a watering can, or go to a stainless steel cup sized container [ it's a Chinese restaurant Sei Yow [ fermented black bean ] container ].

To conserve on water, those that can be severely cut back, are.

If I am really hard up for water [ comes 3 times a week from 10.00 p.m to 5 a.m ] I can put a large basin under what I an watering to re-catch water run off or other.

Wishing you well.
Laters.
Khaimraj

* If you are really desperate and have mist in the morning, but no rain, there is a device planned for use in dry Africa, seen in New Scientist magazine, which traps moisture and collects it for daily use.
It is tall and thin however.

thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I've never collected rainwater before, but I do remember not too long ago in my 30 plus years in Koi, of a heavy first summer rain after a long dry spell.
Water ran off the garage roof and into a club member's pond. Before long the Koi were jumping out of the pond onto the lawn. As luck would have it the club was meeting at their house and ran and threw the koi back into the pond from which they immediately jumped out again. It seems residew from a smelter had fallen on the roof and was now being flushed into the pond.
All this to ask, what harm can come from using rain water after it passes thru a heavily industrialized section of town. Not only chemicals but PH changes can make the water different than before....?

As a former resident of California and Arizona, I suspect trial and error and an automatic watering system will have to play a role here.

I don't know how you have your bonsai yard set up, but I'd suggest grouping your trees together according to general water needs -- junipers and pines together on a table, both of which need a bit less water than many deciduous plants; then various groupings of deciduous, tropicals, etc. You can then experiment with a table-by-table system of spray or drip irrigation with a timer or two to determine what the minimum amount of water needed for each group might be.

If you now water like many of us do, I suspect that, in time, this will save at least 25% of what you had been using.

thanks for your contribution Jim. selective grouping makes sense.

Tho not a california resident, seattle did not get the deep snow in the mountains this year. And while city officials said that the reservoirs are full we may not have any restrictions. But thought it a good topic to have a discussion on. I anticipate a warmer summer this year so It plans to be prepared.....

Hopefully more contributions will continue

I don't want to raise an inflame (again ^^), but however disturbing this is in california (including economic consequences such as farmers losing crops for lack of water), this is the tip of the iceberg, or more exactly a symptom of how the policies concerning water supply for all should not be in the hands of huge profit-making companies. Look at Las Vegas, and think how many families suffer from the lush waste of water there to satisfy the richest.

So it's not only a matter of policies, it's also politics: shall we deplete the whole earth of its natural ressources, including water, for the benefits of a few priviledged ones, or are we willing to make the necessary changes in the way the world economy is ruled?

I much prefer the approach that cities such as Portland have taken:

https://vimeo.com/31402984

And they're not commies, are they, they just are community aware.

Not to mention that global warming doesn't stop at the states' borders...

I think you make a valid point. California feeds much of this nation with it's produce. Much of the former fields of diverse products are being replaced with nut trees as consumers require more and more nuts in their diet. These trees consume much more water then the other crops. So there is a real problem with what makes money for the farmers and the state's economy and what is good for the earth as a whole.

But I doubt we can "save the world" here, so would like to focus on how to deal with less water for our trees.....

I live on the central coast of CA. an I'm thinking of putting in a gray water system. Has anyone tried this yet?

Dick,

on our side, you let the rain wash your roof a few times before collecting the water.
However, as the industries go, that would have to be a lot of pollution and to get by the EMA [ enviro ..... folk ] though they are not perfect, would be noticed by someone.

Just read the New Scientist bit in Southern California, seems they get their water from the Sacremento river.
No desalination or is that really bad as well ?

Grey water, should filtered. You can use the second wash on the washing machine for lawns, but I wouldn't really use it on Bonsai.

Something like this ?
http://www.greywater.com/

Laters.
Khaimraj

I live in Athens Greece. Our region, Attica, is very dry traditionally. The Greek islands are even drier. There, people always had plants in their yards and without frequent rain, they were able to do it only by recycling the water.

Inspired by those old Greek islanders, I connected the sink and washbasins, as well as the shower, with the yard. We wash our vegetables in the kitchen and the water ends up in our plants in the garden. We take a shower and the water instead of finishing in the tubes, goes out in the garden to our plants. You cannot imagine the quantity of water that we save.

I wanted to exaggerate so in 2008 I planted in the ground a platanus (that tree as you know needs great quantity of water, it grows near rivers) and with the recycled water the tree grows very well (in my very dry area). People were telling me that the soap of the shower or the shampoo, would damage the plants, but after so many years they grow very well and I never noticed any damage.
I heard that others send the shower water to the toilet flush and it is recycled there.

So I would suggest to try to recycle your water. Try to collect it and re use it. Or in a more simple way, you can send it directly to the garden.
I will be happy to give more details, if someone is interested to know more.

I think many of us would like details, thank-you!

AlainK wrote:I don't want to raise an inflame (again ^^), but however disturbing this is in california (including economic consequences such as farmers losing crops for lack of water), this is the tip of the iceberg, or more exactly a symptom of how the policies concerning water supply for all should not be in the hands of huge profit-making companies. Look at Las Vegas, and think how many families suffer from the lush waste of water there to satisfy the richest.

So it's not only a matter of policies, it's also politics: shall we deplete the whole earth of its natural ressources, including water, for the benefits of a few priviledged ones, or are we willing to make the necessary changes in the way the world economy is ruled?

I much prefer the approach that cities such as Portland have taken:

https://vimeo.com/31402984

And they're not commies, are they, they just are community aware.

Not to mention that global warming doesn't stop at the states' borders...

Alain makes a valid point, as do others.

Water will be one of the major global issues for the foreseeable future -- but it's only [color:2089=#ff0000]ONE of them. Some very tough choices must be made if we are to have a peaceful future, but the tragedy lies in the fact that we have known what those choices must be for half a century. But, since everyone must participate and since that participation will have severe adverse effects (read: will cost MONEY) on some Very Important People and Corporations (which in turn would have negative ripple effects throughout society) those choices haven't been made.

It is true that California vegetables feed much of the USA (and elsewhere), but its people also use more water for frivolous reasons, and uses more petroleum (roads, fuel, plastics, fertilizers and pesticides, etc.) than almost everywhere else. Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Florida, are other wasteful states (though none are blameless and all are scrambling for "industry" and "development" as if there were no tomorrow). Then there are India, China, Indonesia, and other "developing nations" on several continents, all clamoring for their "chance" but doing damned all to curb their rampant population growths.

And none of this is simplified when you tie it all in to climate change. It ain't simple, folks. And it gets even more complicated when you try to factor in (or even consider) squabbles -- large and small -- over religion, territory, and "National Pride."

I'm sometimes very happy to be old and sick -- but then I think of my kids, grandkids, and greatgrandchildren.



I'm moving this to the Lounge, where we can discuss the original subject or expand it.

Leaving the geopolitical issues aside I'll just pass along something we've done to decrease water usage. The classic way to water bonsai is to water until it flows freely from the drainage holes. Where is that water going? Switched completely to bottom watering since 5 years. I use a plastic watering trough (30gal?) and let each one sit submerged. When it's convenient lift it out and balance the container on the rim of the trough allowing the excess water to drain back in. It saves water but it's also nice having the time otherwise spent holding a hose/watering can.

dick benbow wrote:I think many of us would like details, thank-you!

When the house was built, the water of the shower and of all washbasins and sinks was disposed off as wastewater.

During a restructure of the house, we asked the plumber to deviate the tube of the shower, of the the kitchen sink and of the bathroom and to create a new tube system underground the garden soil.

The first step was to create a tube network under the garden soil. This was easy as in that part of the garden there was just soil and not concrete pavement. So we just had to dig a path, as deep as it was needed for the tubes to fit in. Then we covered the tube, that now was underground. The tubes were connected to each other and in the connections we put control drains, in order to have access to the tubes. The tubes' route was from the house to the trees.

We used the natural inclination of the soil in order to bring the water from the highest point (the house) to the lower points (the trees).

It was an economic solution, therefore we did not use any machinery to pump the water or to filter it.

As the kitchen and bathroom are at the margin of the house (in order to have windows), it was easy to take the water out. The kitchen basin is double, so we decided to use one for the recycling and leave the other as it was (wastewater). The plumber connected the chosen kitchen basin to a new tube that passed out in the garden through a hole to the kitchen wall). When out in the garden, that tube was connected to the underground tube network, leading to the trees.

We also built  a new shower in the garden (it is used in the summer, when the plants need more water and it helps keep the house clean, as we use it after going to the beach. By taking a shower in the garden, we do not go in the house with the sea sand) and the plumber connected its pipette too to the underground tube network.

In the indoor shower, when the shower cabin and the bathroom floor were changed , the plumber connected also the shower tube to the garden tube network.

I will upload photos, for you to see that there is not an evident sign of our work, as everything is in the wall or underground.

(Terminology in hydraulics is not my strong point).

[quote="Khaimraj Seepersad"]Dick,

on our side, you let the rain wash your roof a few times before collecting the water.

Same on our side, Khaimraj. Let it go for an hour or so then put the plug in and topped up the 10,000 gallon tank.

dick benbow wrote:   The Governor announced today a 25% water restriction. So what can be suggested to best use this valuable resource for the benefit of our trees.
It's been a mild winter on the west coast of America, most of the repotting has long ago been accomplished. So deeper pots, and a more organic soil mix is not any kind of option. Many of my japanese hobby friends there also have Koi. So it makes me cringe thinking about not having access to plenty of water...any and all
ideas on how best to use/restrict/recycle should be suggested here..

Gerry Brown in his first term as gov in the 70's was asked by a reporter, "what do you think America's biggest problem is?" The governor replied, "doughnuts."

Bruce,

wish I had the visual space for 10,000 gallons. Had a friend who had a 25,000 gallon tank just up the road about 15 houses away. He had a two story house and trees to hide the tall, black tower - ha ha ha.
Still this house has a very large roof and it is a shame to waste all that water.

Love watering by hand, about an hour in the morning and same for the evening, at the end of the day, the timex walker tells me I have walked 5 miles.
Laters.
Khaimraj

for those of you who followed this thread since moved and added your experiences, THANK_YOU!

I try every day to be involved here and prompt helpful topics and contribute where and when I can. When A topic of mine is "demoted" to the lounge for no fault of my own I feel very hurt. I strongly feel those causing the problem comments, should have a period of time out, where they can't post, to acknowledge their negative contributions as opposed to having the person who initiated the thread punished?

By sending a topic to the lounge, you send a mesage to the initiator, that they are not appreciated, hence their withdrawal from contributing....If you follow this thread from the start you see that I supported those that contributed and with negative comments requested the topic comments be re-addressed.

How is it being "demoted to go to the lounge? Some of our better discussions have been here. The Original Post wasn't discussing a bonsai, and, as it turns out wasn't posted by anyone who actually needed the information for himself -- as I had assumed when I posted my first response about grouping trees -- so and a general question it probably should have been here from the beginning. Sorry if you feel hurt, but . . .

I'll just excuse myself then...have a nice easter.

dick benbow wrote:for those of you who followed this thread since moved and added your experiences, THANK_YOU!

I try every day to be involved here and prompt helpful topics and contribute where and when I can. When A topic of mine is "demoted" to the lounge for no fault of my own I feel very hurt. I strongly feel those causing the problem comments, should have a period of time out, where they can't post, to acknowledge their negative contributions as opposed to having the person who initiated the thread punished?

By sending a topic to the lounge, you send a mesage to the initiator, that they are not appreciated, hence their withdrawal from contributing....If you follow this thread from the start you see that I supported those that contributed and with negative comments requested the topic comments be re-addressed.

dick - i assume all the negative comments have been deleted ???
if not, i am curious about what you are referring to...


and what better place than the lounge for friendly and not-so friendly discourse...?
sorta like a real life lounge... or tavern

I can see it being in 'Discussion' as it relates to maintaining a significant number of bonsai in the face of water restrictions, and the imaginative solutions. I can also see it being in the lounge. Either way I find it a fascinating aspect to bonsai gardening and I'm glad you posted it. I wouldn't take it as anything other than one person's opinion of where you might come across this topic vs. another's.

Bruce Winter wrote:

dick benbow wrote:   The Governor announced today a 25% water restriction. So what can be suggested to best use this valuable resource for the benefit of our trees.
It's been a mild winter on the west coast of America, most of the repotting has long ago been accomplished. So deeper pots, and a more organic soil mix is not any kind of option. Many of my japanese hobby friends there also have Koi. So it makes me cringe thinking about not having access to plenty of water...any and all
ideas on how best to use/restrict/recycle should be suggested here..

Gerry Brown in his first term as gov in the 70's was asked by a reporter, "what do you think America's biggest problem is?" The governor replied, "doughnuts."

And how incredibly right he was, Bruce. Diabetes has been epidemic, and they are calling obstructive sleep apnea (driven by obesity) the newest epidemic. The money saved if we didn't have to pay for overeating-related disorders would allow California to build and run a couple thousand desalination plants, it's that taxing a problem.

I'm sorry if you feel hurt by a topic getting moved to Lounge. Can I emphasise two points please: first, the reason why the forum boards were reconstructed a couple of years ago was to address the issue of everything going into the Discussion board and as a result topics getting quickly supplanted by other threads, pushed off the bottom of the page and therefore lost. Members had complained about this happening - and rightly so.

As a result we consulted the members and from their suggestions we created boards that were more "focussed" e.g. ones specifically for Display, for Galleries and for Introductions were set up to take away some of the traffic from Discussion. Discussion itself was restricted to "threads showing pics of finished trees, single action bonsai tasks you’ve undertaken (e.g. defoliating, crown reduction), trees you’ve recently acquired/collected and show reports."

In light of that, topics such as the current one have little option but to go to Lounge, whose legend we revised so that it took away the "frivolous banter" association that the previous version had. There is still an element of that but the main topics are "all those general bonsai items that don’t fit elsewhere ( e.g. benches/winter storage areas, travelogues, the weather)"

So again, apologies if anyone has been upset.