UPDATE - POST SCALE DAMAGE ADVICE NEEDED -campeche bloodwood raining leaves... again

in january 2015 i acquired a campeche bloodwood from wigerts in fort myers florida...
brought it home to wisconsin and of course have kept it indoors in a bright sunny south facing window



and of course it immediately dropped a bunch of leaves which was no surprise as i would do the same thing if some yank yanked me out of sunny florida and brought me to snowy wisconsin...  

but of course it recovered with new leaves...

lately though (3 months later) it is now raining leaves... both yellowed leaves and green ones (!)



if i thump the trunk with my finger, it literally rains leaves





it does not seem like a pest or disease type thing... i wonder if it is water related ?
it does seem to be a very thirsty fellow with the pot going dry faster than any of my other tropicals...

i have fertilized it 2-3 times in the last 2 months (after it recovered from the relocation blues) with a weak fertilizer, but this last feeding (1 week ago) was a heavier feed as it looked really healthy... so of course i wonder if the heavier feed is a cause...

not much info on the interwebs (or via an IBC search) as this is a relatively new species to bonsai, so i am hoping someone familiar with this species (like those that did post on here about theirs) will see this and offer their comments...

thanks... i hope  

no wild guesses... ?

one last bump...

Well, I don't have a campeche but my willow leaf ficus usually drops a few more leaves before it starts growing again in the spring. Right now it is almost bare. If you temps are similar to mine maybe you could start shuffling it outside. My tropicals are all getting shuffled in and out of the garage right now.

Todd

thanks todd... i am used to what my willow leafs do in the winter (after initially freaking out), but i was hoping that someone with direct bloodwood experience would know if there was anything to be concerned about...

so, you are already shuffling your tropicals, eh ?

i am still shuffling my deciduous, but i think after this next night of below zero (friday nite i think), i will just get them all outside and leave them to fend for themselves... well, except for food and water

Around the end of February and into March my indoor trees are looking sad and begging for more sunlight. I usually start putting them in the sun as soon as the day temps are above 50, I am a bit more brazen with them than suggested. I will leave them outside in the fall until evening temps are down to 40. Now all my ficus are showing new growth from being in the sun. I just purchased my first Brazilian Raintree which will be a new learning experience.

The trees that I overwinter in the garage went outside 3-4 weeks ago to keep them dormant until the hard freezes have past. In previous years they have begun to leaf out in my garage which can be problematic. In general I try to avoid too much coddling of my trees.


P.S. I was in Milwaukee last night for the bulls game. Great city!!!

re milwaukee, thanks !
we like it here... a small big city...
we can get from 1 end of the county to the other during rush hour in less than an hour

and i agree re: coddling trees, except my tropicals, but i will be thinning that herd...

nothing leafing out yet on my deciduous, but most of the buds look 9 months pregnant !

well... i guess it was a pest thing after all

serious scale infestation that i discovered about a month or 2 ago and began immediate treatment, but by then it was very far along...
i have since had it in quarantine and i believe i have gotten my revenge by obliterating the little bastards...

BUT the tree has suffered a severe setback, though i believe it is still alive as there is some new growth showing...



anyways, it was in need of a repot when i got it, but it was winter... it is in serious need of soil elimination as it is in low maintenance nursery mix and i believe the scale was using it as their own little breeding grounds...

does anyone know if it would be advisable to repot it at this stage ?
i can easily get it into a slightly larger pot to eliminate the need for root pruning, but i really want to get rid of that soil...

and if anyone has any thoughts on its chances of recovery, i am all ears

(i pose my questions here as there is very little online info available about this species)

thanks !

Kevin,

down here that tree is usually pest free, in full sun.
Likes water, but it needs to drain freely, and as you know I use aged compost.
It doesn't fit into my design ideas, so I only kept one and have just chopped it down in the hopes of getting something interesting.

My tree came from a zone where they joined an island to the mainland, so the soil level is shallow and salty.
The trees there were happy.

You may wish to take cuttings and experiment.

I have noted that most folk don't realise that to really inderstand a tree, they have to for a time grow at least 10 of that tree.
Yes, I know it is a bother, but it is the better way to learn.

Perhaps a more shallow pot, and just a little organic material.
It is worth going for it, if you get it to flower.
Best wishes.
Khai.....

thanks, but what do you think about re-potting it now as opposed to waiting ?
again, i believe it would benefit from a repotting despite its current state of health...
especially if i do minimal (if any) root pruning...

You don't repot a sick tree. I didn't read this thread closely enough to recall whether this tree is outdoors or not. If not, get it there.

HOWEVER, I've never seen scale do this to an otherwise healthy tree. This tree was ailing and THEN the scale showed up to finish the job. From the looks of the leaves in earlier pics, it was a root issue.

Do you know how recently it had been repotted in Fla?

Get it into part sun, water when it starts to dry out. Fertilizer is NOT medicine, so don't.

i have had it outside for a few weeks now, but more full sun (when we get it)... i will move it to dappled sun.

i believe the only weakness/illness it had previously was the all-of-a-sudden-welcome-to-wisconsin winter blues and i had been attributing the leaf drop to that and that only...

meanwhile, i believe the scales were at work and when i say the scale was bad, i mean it was rampant by the time i discovered it...
i know i should have been more vigilant... lesson learned.

i have no idea when it was last repotted in florida, but the soil it is in is not suited to my climate, it being very heavy in organics which i believe is to ensure moisture retention in florida's heat and i really want to get it it out of that, but i guess i will wait (unless i hear different from someone with direct experience with this species)

i have been with-holding the fertilizer...
but superthrive is medicine
(i know you love the stuff jim )

thanks for the input.

Hmm Kevin,

that is a real toss up. Have tried commnunicating with Wigerts ?
That should have been the first place to ask.

Apart from that, I agree with Jim.

I give no more advice or I would be honour bound to buy you a new tree.

By the way, did you check to see if the tree was root bound, and if so, lifted out and looked at it ?

Outdoors for a few weeks? Kevin didn't you say Spring had sprung just a week ago ?
Logwood will damage around 66 deg.F -[ say 18 deg.C ]
So did you accidentally shock the tree ?
Laters.
Khai.....

It probably can't drink beer. Some tropical type of cocktail with an umbrella sticking out. Wisconsin may be too much for it. Maybe it doesn't like the cut of your jib. It's a wimpy southern tree. It sees the elms outside and is scared to death.
Any of these or one or more in combination is probably contributing to its current state. Put it on a bus and send it to a nice lady in Miami.

Hoorayy beer!! Oh Kelvin( ) you adopted a lil' fella from Florida and then boot 'em outside with no coat?!?! Oh lordy!! I wouldn't get it out until your nights were solid 50's or better. It'll drop leaves regardless I believe.Wait a week or two to see if it responds to responsible watering as the soil is a coffin short of bein' a cemetary! Repot when night temps reach 60's. I mean, when would you save the repotting till', next spring? I would hazard to guess you'll be greeted by a mushy mess of dead roots.

 Ok, that said, if this was me in your Vans, I would do this.

  Shorts, flip-flops, boonie hat, beer.
  Table, tools, soil, cigs and lighter.
  Attitude.


  Wake up tommorow morning, bareroot the hell outta' that ungratefull stick, and stick it in your slickest soil!!
   Seriously, at 9: 30 or so tommorow morning, that's my plan. Beer and all. Our growing zones are similar and I struggle with tropicals as well. Just grip it and rip it!! raintrees will be the host species. My buds got a LARGE raintree in a L A R G E pot. Temperature check for a few weeks out first. Now, I have Pabst.

damn... i am either F****d by the fickle finger of fate
or damned by the dangling D*** of destiny

one or the other...

yes khai, spring really hit a week or two ago and by that i mean, nite time temps in the 50's, and before that we had beautiful days but chilly nites and i would roll my trops into the garage over nite, so maybe it is like mike and lance alluded to... maybe these things are just wee-wee wimpoles when it comes to wisconsin... (you guys kill me !)

well, after that last sentance i ran out and yanked it outta the pot and it is a bit, but not terribly, root bound...

BUT, and this is a BIG BUTT, upon close examination i am seeing new buds all over the place on it that werent there a couplafew days ago... STOKED !

so knowing that it is on the rebound, what might be my timing for the repot ???

just temps ?
or new growth eeeeelongation ?

as an aside, i am trimming the herd on the tropicals... get 'em healthy and sell some off later in the summer
having too many is too hard in wisconsin and i probably have 20-30

Flip flops and a boonies hat.
Now that's attitude!
Kind of like Kevin's muk luks.
Bad Ass

like mikey da eye sez:

AAC4LIFE BABY !

Kevin,

read up a bit, some tropicals come the lowlands and are tender. Some have thicker cambium, and may come from 900 m or 3000 feet up and have greater cold tolerance.
Venezuela 3000 feet up - at 85 deg.F by day and 66 deg.F at night presently, dead on in the tropics, just altitude.

Grow on for at least a month, see if it goes to root bound. Talk to Sifu [ Jerry Meislick ] and Jim's advice is still sound.
Lots of sun eventually. Remember with time, indoor to outdoor as solar power goes.

Oh dear soon to be 31 or 41 Tropicals, apologies.
I can say no more
Laters
Khai.......

Greetings Kevin, This is a bit of insight from Minnesota! I've been keeping tropicals alive for twenty five years in our cold state besides many deciduous bonsai!! All of my tropicals have had a taste of scale but I have learned it rarely occurs when you provide the humidity these plants need. Once in a while scale gets a foothold on one tree but you must be looking for sticky leaves and then spraying with a dishsoap , water and alcohol (rubbing) solution plus a leaf spraying regimen of plain water daily during the cold seasons. These trees come from home states that are warm and humid...something foreign to our norther climes.

Rushing the tropicals out before it's at least in the 50's is begging for trouble. I've never had a problem with soil but luckily I acquired the trees in the summer months and usually repotted during the hottest month. If you feel the tree needs to be repotted in a cold month use a seedling heat pad under the newly potted plant and keep in a warm area. By the way I've never found the soil mix to be the culprit in a scale attack.

I've nurtured a buttonwood for more than 20 years but it is showing signs of decline this year. Hopefully it can revived after repotting , the leaves are showing distress and will all need to be pruned right before it's transferred to a new and deeper pot!

I've had a notion that bonsai in a sunny window can have leaves damaged by glass reflection. My 2 aged bougies which are small have had leaf issues in the south window so I've set them farther away from the window and they are doing fine now!

I hope some of these thoughts will help you adapt your southern adoptees to our chilly states.

Good luck,
Norma

sly khai... you say you can say no more...
but of course that makes me even more curious

i tried to read up some on this one, but very little info out there re: pot culture...
but i am happy to say that the new growth i mentioned is really coming in and all over the place !!!
so i feel it is on the mend and will recover, but it will continue to receive a little special attention until it is full of vim & vigor...

and yes, i will wait for that before repotting...

and re tropicals, dont get me wrong...
i love them, but they of course offer their own challenges in our climate which brings me to norma...

norma - thank you very much for taking the time to reply with some detailed info from a region perhaps similar to my own...
(though which part of mini-soda can make all the difference in the world)

but despite what part you are from, that is rock solid advice for probably all my tropicals...

i am in my 4th year of this endeavor and i have set my self a difficult task in learning about all the trees i have...
but it is a difficult task that i thoroughly enjoy.
(kind of like when senior citizens go back to college )

just a recovery update...

new growth all over the place









will show again in full leaf and after re-potting

thanks again for the helpful input

Ah ha, Kevin,

aren't you glad that Jim with his 40 years + of experience stepped in...........................

See if he has an opinion on this -

Miracle-Gro
Indoor Plant food stakes

6 N
12 [ 5.3 after 0.44 conversion to P ] P
6 [ 4.8 after 0.8 conversion to K ] K
[ memory here so check for accuracy ]

plus micro nutrients

I have been using them to correct yellowing. You can cut the stakes.

Now please purchase a simple min-max thermometer.

Happy to see the tree growing again!!!!
Best to you.
Khai.......

not sure what you meant about jim...

but at any rate, thanks !

re: the miracle grow plant spikes, i have used those for many years on my regular outdoor potted plants...

from what i have been able to read about these campeches, and for the short time i have had this tree it has held true, is that the new growth comes out coppery-ish in color, so the appearance on the new growth is normal.

best to you as well