Indoor Bonsai under LED lights.

ApacheTech AT120W.(~170watt) USA.

http://www.apachetechinc.com/white-leds/1-white-leds-at120w.html

I have very mixed feelings about this light..

The spectrum is lovely with intense crisp 6100K white light, almost like a traditional MH light, and the growing power is great for only ~170watts.
Quality of the light fixture in general is top notch with a huge heatsink, top bin NICHIA LEDs and MeanWell power supply's.
The whole housing is made of aluminum witch is great for ultra durability and cooling, but it also makes the light very heavy (7KG)!
It is quite obvious that this light is build to last for a very long time even in harsh conditions, i would say more commercial greenhouse grade then a home gardener grade light, very high quality.

I did try to hang 2 of these in my 4x2 grow tent, but no go! not only are the lights very heavy, but the lights hanging support on the top is not the best IMO, i just can't figure out how to hang them good and stable, 4 simple hanging points would have been great!
Anyhow the parts of the tent shelf's where the lights was hanging from started to bend to the point where i was worried they would break and 14kg of LEDs would eventually fall on my trees..

I instead ended up using just one light on a stable wooden frame, not the best long term solution but a ok one for these LED trials.
So even though i like this light a lot for its quality, spectrum and growing power, the heavy weight and "strange" mountings for hanging did not really workout for me and my main setup.

Another "issue" is the extremely narrow light spread of this lights lenses, it basically acts like a giant flashlight, everything under it grows very good, but the light intensity diminishes very quickly to the sides, i have a set of extra lenses with a wider angle, but with those installed the unit really lost that lovely light intensity.

Wort mentioning is also that the 2 cooling fans in the light are very loud, i ended up replacing them with more silent ones, a quite easy process really.

This light is not for everyone that's for sure, but If one have the setup to hang this light properly then its a superb quality LED light, with the light intensity of a ~400-600MH within the lights footprint, this is from readings i found online, but having some experience with MH lights in the past i would say the intensity and performance is in that area for sure, off course this depends on hanging distance from trees as well as other factors.

The AT120 series are at least 2-3 years old and the company now makes even more powerful lights, i would suspect that the AT120 line will be discontinued quite soon.

For more information visit there webpage, IMO not the best or most pretty webpage, actually not much real valuable tech info at all.. if i had not heard good things about this company from friends with aquariums and now also tried a unit my self, then i would never had thought it was this high quality lights.
I hope they will update there site and make it more user friendly soon, there products deserve it.

!Update! After a simple modification to the lights, they are now easier to hang since the weight is distributed much better, thanks to this the bending of the growtents roof section is greatly reduced.

RapidLED's ONYX Bloom.(~250watt) USA.

http://www.rapidled.com/bloom-onyx-by-rapid-led/

This light is designed exclusive for flowering plants, i have not used it for very long but so far it have worked very well, my hibiscus would not stop flowering, chili's did very well under it as well, i would say close to the ones of similar size i had on the balcony.
Unfortunately all my chili plants died from what i have narrowed down to be some kind of tobacco virus.. that was something new for me.. i love chili's and want to train some Bonchies, so just one more reason for me to stop smoking i guess.

WARNING! to everyone who has chili's, do not let anyone that smokes touch your plants!

Quality of the ONYX is very high, big heatsink and a rather silent cooling fan, Warm White ~3000K CREE XM-L2 top bin LED chips and a remote Mean Well power supply.
Worth mentioning is that the fan in the power supply is very loud and i hope to replace it with a silent one soon, just need to see that it can be done without compromising cooling of the power supply, will update on this later.

The unit is quite small for its high power output and also uses rather narrow angle lenses, so the light covrage is not the best when hanged close to plants, but since its a very powerful unit it can be hanged at rather good distances from the plants witch will then increase the light coverage some.

Would absolutely recommend this light for people wanting to induce flowers or fruits on there trees.

Worth mentioning is that there is also a ~6500K version of this light, and judging from the performance of the Bloom version then i bet the cool white version is just as good but for non flowering trees.
http://www.rapidled.com/veg-onyx-by-rapid-led/

As with all LED lights its very hard to really say exactly what the ONYX replace in terms of traditional light fixtures, there are just so many factors to consider and not just light related ones.
But there seam to be some rather common and realistic numbers floating around when it comes to high quality LED units, and that's using ~2/3 to somewhere around half the power of traditional fixtures like MH and HPS.

When calculating LED light watts, make sure its the actual power draw you are looking at!

And now the grow tents.

HOMEbox Q30 Evolution. EU.(Germany)

http://www.homebox.net/en/product/evolution/q-30

One may think this tent is to small to keep any Bonsai in since it being only 1x1x2(30x30x60cm) in size, but IMO it is just perfect for small shohin trees using a small CFL or LED light, IMO the SANlight M30 is very good LED for this little tent.
Since its very small heat also builds up rather quick so the use of a small pc fan as air exhaust may be needed, it has a passive air intake on the back witch the company calls a OmniFlow, its hard to explain the design, but its a simple and clever solution that work very well with minimal light leakages.

Quality of this tent is very good overall, stable frame with good size poles and large plastic corners, big strong zippers and a thick durable outer fabric, the inside is white to reflect light and easy to wipe of i needed, the company advertise that there "PAR+" reflective material is superior to other reflective surfaces, to this i can not testify.
But i can say that it works well to reflect the light inside the tent, this makes for a very efficient setup no mater light choice since minimum light is wasted to the sides and instead reflected back at the tree.
I have tested this by hanging the M30 LED on the tent frame, and then measuring light intensity with a LUX meter both with and without the tent on the frame.

The "door" of this tent roles up and have a little hook to keep it up when open, this is a clever design witch work well, overall this tent is very well designed, of good quality and almost totally light proof, also extremely easy to assemble and disassemble quick, and it looks very nice with its all black sleek design.

If just cared for properly and not abused in any way then this tent should last a long time.

I would really recommend the HOMEbox Q30 to people looking to overwinter small tropicals, or to grow them all year round as power efficiently as possible in a stylish compact package.

I absolutely love this little tent.

More detailed information on the Q30's design/functions can be found on the company's webpage witch i linked to in the beginning of this post.

HOMEbox CloneBox View. EU.(Germany)

http://www.homebox.net//en/product/evolution/clonebox-view#woa-view-product-selector

This is a bigger tent from HOMEbox, i wish i could say i like this tent as much as the small Q30 tent..

The main "problem" is that this tent belongs to the Original HOMEbox line of products witch are now many years old, this is actually the only tent from HOMEbox that has not gotten its Evolution update yet, but its on its way i been told.

This is not to say its a bad grow tent, its not just as good as the Evolution line in terms of design, for example the "doors" are so heavy and uses so many zippers and flaps (for light proofing) that opening and closing the tent can get somewhat irritating at times.

Then there is the shelf's/roof witch IMO are made up of to weak steel parts, in general one shelf can hold up to ~70KG of even distributed weight with out problems, but hanging to point heavy equipment from them is a no go IMO, since they then flex and bend to much for things to feel stable and safe, this i experienced first handed when trying to hang the 2 ApacheTech units from the roof.
I have been told that this "issue" will be fixed in the new version.

Older design air intakes are used witch leaks light and do not work nearly as well as the new OmniFlow design.

It uses the same reflective interior (PAR+) as the Evolution line witch is nice, and the outer fabric feels strong and durable, the frame is also stable and well designed with good size poles, the shelf's being adjustable around every ~5-10cm in height is very nice, great flexibility to fit most needs.

One thing i really do like are the transparent windows witch can be used for viewing the trees without opening and letting all the humidity out, i really hope they keep that neat feature in the new design as well.

If i had not tested the small Q30 tent witch are of the new Evolution line and experienced that level of design quality, then i would have had less bad things to point out in this current CloneBox tent, so understand me right, this is still a good quality tent, the Evolution design is just much more refined and joyful to work with.

So would i recommend anyone buying this tent now when a new improved design is in the works, well, if you live in the EU and need a good tent in this size quick, then go for it, but if you can wait a while, then it may be well worth doing so.

I will review the new version of the CloneBox at a later date.

Hope these small reviews will be of help for someone out there.

!Update!Since i modded the hanging points of the heavy lights witch made the shelf of this tent bend in the first place, there is now a much less sever bend, i still think that the shelf's could be stronger, but at least now its clear that as long as the equipment is well balanced there is no major problem with bending, and the shelf's should be able to hold the advertised 70KG.

Next up is the new DIY LED, just waiting on some final parts..

Looks like i fried the driver of new DIY LED...  if i can't fix it myself soon it has to be sent back to the people at LEDgroupbuy, respect to those guys for being so helpful, good costumer service, yes indeed.

In the mean time all my indoor trees are in the big tent over the winter, kinda crowded in there right now.. but they are all growing well and recovering fine from the spidermite attack.





The Hedera in the corner have grown like crazy in the last months, its even up in the roof crawling around, had to add another M30 (old version) to keep it happy.
It will be cut back hard in spring and begin its journey to become a bonsai.
So now its a total of 210Watts of LEDs in there, IMO still quite impressive using this little power over such a big area with this amount of crowded plant material and still getting this good growth.

Hope everyone is having a good start of the new year.

No luck in getting the DIY light from LEDgroupbuy to work ... so all the electronics will be sent back to the company for better problem solving, once i get either repaired or new parts back i will try building it again, and with better luck this time i hope.

Having been curious to how well the 2 Apache unit would preform together in my big tent, i now decided to modify the units so they would be easier to hang, by simply replacing each corner screw with a hook i got 4 simple hanging points.
This also almost eliminated the problem with the roof shelf bending, now there is just a slight inwards bend but each unit hangs secure so i am happy with it.


After some hard pruning and 3 new plastic trays it looks much more organized in there and i absolutely love this intense 6200K spectrum! feels like i have a 600Watt or two 400Watt MH in there minus the heat, stable temps at ~24-25C with just a 92mm PC fan running at 6v for extracting the heat produced by ~340Watt of LEDs + Drivers, impressive IMO.
LUX levels at ~50cm are ~60.000 under each light, ~30.000 in the middle and ~20.000 in the corners of the tent.


Got a new light for review and testing from a company out of the UK named GrowNorthern, this light uses white and monochrome Philips LED chips and driver, it consumes ~80Watts to replace a 250Watt HID (what the company advertise).
What makes this light stand out the most is the use of a special diffuser to spread and mix the light from each LED chip very effectively, this makes for a very even light distribution without hotspots and strange color shadowing, the light is pinkish-white and easy on the eyes.


Its a very high quality unit build with only cream of the crop parts, more info on the light and all the parts it consists of can be found on there webpage
http://www.grownorthern.com/

Will go over this unit more later as i have gotten to know it better.

Any updates on your LEDs Dreamcast? I'm looking to upgrade to some higher quality lights.

Hey, Ryan! Have planed on doing a update for a while now, just been busy collecting and enjoying spring to much i guess. Anyways, This is how it looked like about a ~week ago. ~420Watts of LED in the 2x4 tent, stable temps at ~28C with ambient indoor temps of ~22C. Everything is growing great and developing in a steady phase.

I have moved some stuff around like i always tend to do, the GrowNorthern has joined the Apache lights, it is a nice little light and everything i put under it is thriving, i am impressed so far considering it only draws ~80Watts.
The Chillies i have under it right now are looking very nice, internode spacing is very tight with fat stems already, they will hopefully become nice Bonchies in the future while giving me some hot Chillies in the process.

Soon there will be a big Benjamina project under it, then i can really determine how well it handles a bigger tree where light penetration is crucial, the perfect ficus species for the job!

On the flowering side we have the Onyx and 2 Fuchsia's, they are flowering, and flowering, and.. it never stops, i am not complaining at all, beautiful ballerina flowers and nice healthy plants!
And this photo is even after i have removed a bunch of flowers, just lovely! a very good flowering light indeed.


Still waiting on new parts for the DIY light, but i have been told it will be here soon, very excited about that one,

I would be glad to give you some suggestions on higher end LED lights, let me know what size area you want to cover and the height of the area, White or Monochrome light, if you want a US made light or if you can consider importing from EU, budget, and so on.

Hey Dreamcast, love your work on the lights!
Can I ask how old those fuchsias in your last post are?
How did you achieve such nice stems in the Swedish cold?

Thanks in advance, Tentakelaertje

Tentakelaertje, Thanks for the kind words.

These 2 Fuchsia's where actually once one, it was a very big plant originally cared for by a older woman, she had it for a long time from it was a small clone, outside in the summer and indoors in winter. Since it never really experienced extreme cold there where no major die-backs, and rarely being cut back it had the chance to grow all year long to achieve a pretty good trunk, at least like you say, for this climate.

I will continue to keep them outdoors in summer and indoors over winter, hopefully they will thrive and go in to nice shallow pots by next year, would be lovely to have these 2 in full flower on display every winter.

Looks great! I'm looking to cover a 4x4 area and would like to spend under $1,000 US. I'd prefer to keep it a US company to save on shipping. Which light has given you the best growth?

Ryan, i have only tested 2 lights from the US, the ApacheTech lights are way to expensive to even consider with your budget and the size area you want to cover.
But 2 Onyx Veg lights from RapidLED could work, that would be ~500Watt total power draw, and ~30watt per square foot in a 4x4, a good amount of light for non flowering trees.
I have only used the Bloom version witch is a beast IMO, so i can't even imagine the Veg version being any less good but for non flowering trees.
The "negative" thing about the Onyx is the high power and small size fixture with a tight light footprint, this makes it a little hard to distribute all that light, but 2 of them hanging at a good distance from the plants could cover a 4x4 pretty well.

It cost $400 US witch is a very good price for this type of quality unit of this power, and from a company with good reputation. And 2 of them are well within your budget.

http://www.rapidled.com/veg-onyx-by-rapid-led/

Thanks! I was really looking into those lights. I wonder if the visible light they give off is white instead of pinkish red...

They are 100% crisp 6500K White light, like a Metal Halide.

I'll definitely go with two of those then. I'll also get a Gorilla grow tent to use with the lights.

In terms of fans, what do you use? Looks like a computer fan. If so, how'd you set it up?

Sounds like it could be a really nice quality setup! But don't take my word for it, make sure you ask RapidLED to really confirm if 2 of there Onyx Veg can effectively cover a 4x4, and if they can at what height so you know if the Gorilla tent will work.

Yeah, i use computer fans, one 120mm that you see hanging in the tent to just keep air circulating, and then a 92mm one to extract the hot air like this.

Both of them are connected to a simple 12v 500mA power adapter, but i use one witch have modes for 12v,9v,7,5v,6v,4,5v,3v,1,5v. So i can use it like a dimmer to speed the fans up and down, its really nice to be able to somewhat control the temperature and circulation in the tent, in winter i had them running as low as 4,5v, now they are running almost full power every day.
But considering you plan on using a tent twice the size you may need something more powerful to extract the hot air, or maybe if it has more then one extraction point in the roof you can just use more PC fans.

I'll probably just use regular fans, as I have no experience with wiring and all that for the PC fans...

Yeah, no need to gamble and burn down the house in the process. Did you contact Rapid and ask if 2 units where enough for your planed area?

Dreamcast wrote:Yeah, no need to gamble and burn down the house in the process. Did you contact Rapid and ask if 2 units where enough for your planed area?

I have not, thanks for the reminder!

I think I'm going to have to build my own tent out of a wood frame instead of buying one. They're all just too tall for my plant room.

Ryan, that's to bad.. IMO nothing really beats a quality tent. But i am still sure your build will be awesome and i am looking forward to see the new setup on your blog!

Are you still thinking 2 Onyx for lights?

Dreamcast wrote:Ryan, that's to bad.. IMO nothing really beats a quality tent. But i am still sure your build will be awesome and i am looking forward to see the new setup on your blog!

Are you still thinking 2 Onyx for lights?

I agree, but they're all just too tall and not big enough for my trees. I'm planning on at least 2 Onyx lights, maybe even 3 at this point depending on how many trees I end up with by the end of summer.

iteresting

Actually, Gorilla Grow Tents just came out with a new series of grow tents that are shorter than normal grow tents, so I'm definitely buying one of those.

Ryan wrote:Actually, Gorilla Grow Tents just came out with a new series of grow tents that are shorter than normal grow tents, so I'm definitely buying one of those.

Happy to hear that, a tent really makes things so much better!

Like i said before, really make sure what ever light/lights you go with will effectively cover your area at the max hanging distance the tent will allow for, the ONYX for example dose require a good hanging distance from the plants, not just to get a good light footprint, but also to make sure the trees under it will not bleach from to concentrated light.

I have not done this so i am not sure it would work, but i think one can remove the front cover and lenses from the ONYX, this should make it less intense and improve the light footprint, but i guess that will also void the warranty.. maybe not the best thing when it comes to such expensive equipment.