Need the group's opinion

Okay Group,

sometime around 2010, I showed a Flacourtia indica [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flacourtia_indica ]

For me on this island, the tree is small about 25' [ say 8m ] and the trunk around 12 to 14 inches [ 30 to 36 cm ] in diameter. The leaves weep are a rich green when mature, are red on new growth and the bark flakes with age.
With extreme dry weather, it can defoliate completely.
Deeply rooted [ or roots will only show with erosion ]

A boyhood tree, memories of rolling the fruit in the hands, to soften for eating. Delicious.

So the philosophy - my attempt has a trunk at over 1" [ 2.5 cm ] and I don't think it will help the illusion to try and fatten to much more, perhaps better to sit and wait for the bark to flake and the mature branches will cease to produce thorns.

My effort is just a simple trunk with a large canopy.

Can you guys handle yet another effort that works more with nature and less with conventions ?
Until.
Khaimraj

October 2010-

Isn't part of the artistry of bonsai being able to evoke feelings with your tree? Even if this tree never appeals to any other person on earth, if it brings back fond memories of your childhood, I'd say it's priceless and well worth the effort. I too am working on a tree that defies all bonsai conventions/styles, but it is a recreation of a tree that I played on as a child. And personally, I don't care if anyone likes my tree.

Good luck with this project.

Khaimraj
This IS a tree to my eyes, add the container and it becomes a bonsai.
It has a trunk, a taper, a respectable girth, primary, secondary and tertiary branches.
Nice ramification.
You could visualize birds or a cat perched on its branch.
If you take only the tree and photoshop it with a field in the background it will blend in.

From this angle I don't know if there is any nebari, but even without one it looks like a tree right now.

Only thing that's distracting my eyes are the two roots at the bottom, but that's up to your taste to keep or remove them.
I've got two trees that I kept a root shooting out of the main trunk so I'm not complaining that its bad, just that I don't see how it embellish the tree right now.

Can you guys handle yet another effort that works more with nature and less with conventions ?

I don't really get that part. Which conventions were you pointing out specifically?
There is still loads of bonsai convention here i.m.o. [ There might be one or two points that are repeating ]:
1. Taper is present : The trunk is not the same width top to bottom
2. Ramification is present : Its not only trunk and primary branches and leaves.
3. Finer Ramification has been done on the tree : Primary branches are thinner than main trunk, secondary branches are thinner than primary branches etc.
4. Primary branches are alternating along the main trunk
5. Movement is present on the trunk : Its not a straight line, there is a soft movement, but its a movement none the less.
6. Use of triangles in the general structure. Even if the overall image is round in shape, you can still distinguish the triangular structures of the branches.
7. There is a direction/design, an aim towards which it is going in the future. You said it yourself, your design/direction is : "My effort is just a simple trunk with a large canopy." Its not like tomorrow morning you'll just wake-up and decide to make this into a bunjin or cascade or wire it to make it fully upright.
8. Decreasing internodes ascending the trunk
9. There does not seem to be any branches growing towards the main trunk, all seems to grow away from it.
Other conventions that come to mind that apply to the tree are:
10. No crossing branches, or branches that cross the trunk.
11. No eye-poking branches (pointed directly at viewer).
12. First branch should be placed approximately one third the height of the tree.
13. Branches should diminish in size and caliper as they ascend.
14. There should be space between the branches to 'Let the birds fly through'.
15. To create the illusion of an old tree, wire the branches down. Young trees have ascending branches. The branches near and in the apex can be horizontal or ascend since this is the young part of the tree.

A review based on the conventions :
The tree trunk exhibits the gentle, delicate movement that communicates the feeling of a young tree. The full, lush canopies that cover the structure are typical of young trees and further solidifies this feeling.
Further more the lack of sign of damage indicate a tree that has grown in an area without adverse weather/conditions, no cyclones or typhoon or strong winds or high mountain winds or strong winters. It gives off an impression of having grown inside a warm valley with little interaction with animals such as woodpeckers, bears or deer that usually adds signs of damage on the tree.

Overall a great attempt at a naturalistic bonsai style.
It can only improve further down in the future.

Xavier de Lapeyre wrote:... ... Only thing that's distracting my eyes are the two roots at the bottom, but that's up to your taste to keep or remove them. I've got two trees that I kept a root shooting out of the main trunk so I'm not complaining that its bad, just that I don't see how it embellish the tree right now.

I can say the same thing, too. But then I have also one buxus with such kind of a root

Xavier de Lapeyre wrote:... ...

Can you guys handle yet another effort that works more with nature and less with conventions ?

I don't really get that part. Which conventions were you pointing out specifically?... ...

Khaimraj, perhaps Xavier doesn't know you as long as I have been knowing you (on the internet and IBC, I mean) so that's why he cannot understand exactly your words, but I can answer back to you "I can handle this effort of yours once again"

I'd like to be in on the "joke"... if there's some room.

There is plenty of room, Xavier but there is no joke or joker
I was just referring to some special Khaimraj's values of character (or just characteristics if you would prefer...) which have been "criticized" in the past.
I believe that Khaimraj has carefully chosen his words "Can you guys handle yet another effort that works more with nature and less with conventions" being put in doubt in the past.
But perhaps this is only my personal estimation and if Khaimraj come back to his thread he might enlighten us, Xavier

Hmm,

Stan, I will take any and all advice to the point where the design is matured, and then I go deaf.

Xavier and Alexandra, once in a while I find a local tree that shows great promise. This tree has the ability to densify, with a very slim trunk and at a short height of 30 cm or so. Xavier this would interest you as the tree will grow in your area, yet I also see the Taiwanese growing it, so it will probably grow by Alexandra as well.

I am finding quite a few trees, that with age, retain small slim trunks, often they peel or flake, but having high branchlet density as well. They also have no surface roots, unless exposed by erosion.
The wood is also often extremely hard.

So can you grow trees that are old and very slim, have high branchlet density, no surface roots and still give an illusion of age?
Later.
Khaimraj

* Some also have a pronounced ability to heal.

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:
So the philosophy - my attempt has a trunk at over 1" [ 2.5 cm ] and I don't think it will help the illusion to try and fatten to much more, perhaps better to sit and wait for the bark to flake and the mature branches will cease to produce thorns.

My effort is just a simple trunk with a large canopy.

Can you guys handle yet another effort that works more with nature and less with conventions ?

[funcky voice]
Oh, but Khaimraj, how can you pretend to do bonsai if you ignore the big fat trunk and surface root-exposure requirements! Now all you have is a shrub in a pot [/funcky voice]



Just joking. I loved the plant as soon as I saw the picture. Was it really in 2010? Do you have a recent image? Your location & skill combined should have really changed this plant by now into a mature old tree?

Is it Jelle, ?

and is that word ------- Funky ? chuckle.

Now remember I am just reporting on what I see in nature down here, and not trying to make a statement or other. Okay.

When I transfer the tree to a bonsai pot, I will send an image. I had some sort of strange scale infestation on a back branch, and have to regrow a new one.
Later.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Is it Jelle, ?

and is that word ------- Funky ? chuckle.

Not sure whether it is a word. Just wanted to indicate I was not making a serious statement, but just a little joke, and clearly not my personal opinion on the tree .

Khaimraj,, I like your tree,it may be different but so what... see what you have under the soil at the base of the tree for roots.. the high roots may have to go on the right ??? i would just trim it a little for shape nothing else,, make it sort of broom style... the fruit is a pluse ,my opion,, have fun post another picture please..take care john