Topiary European?

I know this is probably dumb but what is the difference between bonsai and topiary? Is it just cultural?

Topiary is making a plant look like something else, an animal for example. Bonsai is making the plant look natural as it might in nature.

I don't think this is not a dumb question, not at all!

...Many people are doing topiary style of trimming in their tree. just creating the outline of the tree with dense foliage. but if you would examine closely inside the branches, the healthy growth is just on the outside, but bare in the inside...in short-lacks ramification process.

Sometimes this fast track solution were done by tree sellers to create a more appealing tree/product to buyers, and if not rectified by the new owner, the present branching style would create problem for the tree.

just browse around here, you'll find some of these trees. some were even done by pros.

regards,
jun

Chisky, in topiary there is no attempt to "miniaturise a tree" - i.e. create if you like a scale model of a tree where everything is in its proportion so that what you have is a small version of what it quite clearly a tree. It doesn't really matter if you have the naturalistic form or a more stylised bonsai, the basic principles of a tree in miniature apply. That's why bonsai with outsized leaves tend not to look so good (generalisation there - of course there are exceptions) All that happens in Topiary is that, as Jun and Billy say, the outer foliage is trimmed into a shape of some sort. There is no attempt (or even need) to trim roots and reduce leaves.


I actually don't entirely agree with Jun on the lack of ramification. While it may not be what the topiarist is trying to do deliberately, the very act of trimming off the top growth actually does encourage back-budding which is what we try to do in bonsai. There is a garden not far from with splendid long-established topiary and clipped hedging. If you look inside the hedging you will see ancient looking trunking and very well ramified outer branches sitting at the end of nice thick inner branches. And because they are quite low they are a bonsai artist's dream. There are species of plant that respond far better to topiary than others and over here the common ones are Buxus sempervirens (UK common name- box) and Ligustrum ovalifolium (UK common name -privet) - both naturally small leaved so again ideal for bonsai too.

And if you think that's good, over here in the UK we also have the great fortune of miles and miles of hedges which have been trimmed back (essentially topiary but without making it into a shape) leaving lovely thick trunks, great branches and smashing ramification from where the whacking great tractor-mounted cutters that farmers use have chopped them back. All you need to worry about then, if you're lucky enough to be around when some hedging is being totally stripped out, is how big the root ball is.

And . . . bonsai are in pots. Topiary usually isn't (I say "usually" because there are companies which rent topiary out for parties -- though none that I go to).

fiona wrote: I actually don't entirely agree with Jun on the lack of ramification.

It's not about ramification, it's about the refinement of that ramification. I've seen privets that have been grazed on by cows that have great ramification and looked pretty damn good from a distance. Cows can create topiary, but not bonsai.

And I do agree with Jun, there HAVE been topiaries in bonsai pots passed off as bonsai on this forum.

Russell Coker wrote:

fiona wrote: I actually don't entirely agree with Jun on the lack of ramification.

It's not about ramification, it's about the refinement of that ramification. I've seen privets that have been grazed on by cows that have great ramification and looked pretty damn good from a distance. Cows can create topiary, but not bonsai.

Absolutely. I wasn't disputing his differentiation between bonsai and topiary - just saying that back-budding and a degree of ramification can happen in topiarised plants. But, as you rightly say, not to the extent or level of refinement we need it in bonsai.

Russell Coker wrote: And I do agree with Jun, there HAVE been topiaries in bonsai pots passed off as bonsai ...

Now that, sadly, is quite true. I can't remember any specific ones on here but I saw one at a local show not that long ago. A decent hawthorn ruined. I wish that cow you mentioned had been around to have a go at it, Russell - it might have produced a better image.