juniperus thurifera yamadori

This is a yamadori juniperus thurifera that i bought at Pius Notter's place in a workshop in the spring of 2007.
It was a enjoyable weekend and in the end he styled the trees.



After a time a wasn't satisfied of the position of the tree,so i changed the angle of the tree in June 2007.




Beginning of April 2008 the tree was repotted and i let the tree grow for a year.



Last Friday i took this tree to discuss with Hotsumi.
First i removed the weak foliage and some branches of which one has become a jin.
Afterwards we slightly changed the position to the left and i could wire the tree.
After that i styled the tree with accompaniment of hotsumi.

For the future we thought of a round red brown pot in the direction of nanban.

Greetings,
Yannick

Nice tree, this is an unconventional suggestion, but it seems to me that the "default" by the rules of bonsai of the base could possibly be employed to the tree's advantage rather than attempted to be hidden. Looking at the first few images the narrow base and wider top, coupled with the beautiful contortions of the trunk gave the tree a kind of reverse perspective that caused it to leap from the pot at the viewer. It seems to me that this tree does not want to be grounded, so why force it? However it depends on what you want out of it, this would not make it a good bonsai by the rules but it might make for an interesting specimen and addition to any garden. Either way I think it is a nice tree.

austinheitzman wrote:Nice tree, this is an unconventional suggestion, but it seems to me that the "default" by the rules of bonsai of the base could possibly be employed to the tree's advantage rather than attempted to be hidden. Looking at the first few images the narrow base and wider top, coupled with the beautiful contortions of the trunk gave the tree a kind of reverse perspective that caused it to leap from the pot at the viewer. It seems to me that this tree does not want to be grounded, so why force it? However it depends on what you want out of it, this would not make it a good bonsai by the rules but it might make for an interesting specimen and addition to any garden. Either way I think it is a nice tree.

Yes , this was discussed with some people, some had a problem with it and others liked it.
We had idea's like graft roots on the tree just under the big part of the shari,try other position,...
And the most yamadori have some defaults.
But i like this tree in this position now, i think the tree looks elegant in the way it is right now.

Thank you for youre compliment

Greetings,
Yannick

Since the nebari is not good, you might consider separating the live wood from the shairir and coiling the live wood in a pot and making the tree shorter where the base would be wider.

The inverse tapper is a bit awkward but beside that it has great movement.

Hi Yannick,I love the spiral-movement of this tree
Only the base of this tree is not so good,but this is a common problem with this species.
But I think you solve this problem also in the next couple of years,great result for now
Greetings Ed

Against convention I am not bothered at all by the narrow base. I think it gives the tree a light ethereal quality that works well with the sharis you have made near the top. The virtual of the tree shortened with a wider base just makes it ponderous and leaden to me. This is a very nice tree for me and the changes you made from the initial styling improved it greatly.

Velodog2 wrote:Against convention I am not bothered at all by the narrow base. I think it gives the tree a light ethereal quality that works well with the sharis you have made near the top. The virtual of the tree shortened with a wider base just makes it ponderous and leaden to me. This is a very nice tree for me and the changes you made from the initial styling improved it greatly.

V,

You hit the nail on the head with this one. Lowering this tree in the pot for the sake of stability destroys its grace and charm for me.

It is what it is - a collected tree that has led a hard life. I think your design is wonderful, pot choice right on the money, don't change a thing.

Russell

Russell Coker wrote:

Velodog2 wrote:Against convention I am not bothered at all by the narrow base. I think it gives the tree a light ethereal quality that works well with the sharis you have made near the top. The virtual of the tree shortened with a wider base just makes it ponderous and leaden to me. This is a very nice tree for me and the changes you made from the initial styling improved it greatly.

V,

You hit the nail on the head with this one. Lowering this tree in the pot for the sake of stability destroys its grace and charm for me.

It is what it is - a collected tree that has led a hard life. I think your design is wonderful, pot choice right on the money, don't change a thing.

Russell

This is my opinion to.
Hotsumi allso said that in Japan the smaller base wouldn't be a problem and they would give much money for a tree of this quality with this deadwood, movement and size.

Greetings,
Yannick

Hello,

The tree is perfect how it is. Transformnig the base to make it look wider will definitely take away 90% of its movement and grace. It has a unique quality that is in itself exceptional. In my opinion, few yamadori junipers display a battle between the live and dead parts as good as this tree. In the future, when the branch structure matures, it will be one of the best in its class.

Also, a tree of this quality deserves and antique pot!!!


Kind regards,
Jose Luis

Rob Kempinski wrote:Since the nebari is not good, you might consider separating the live wood from the shairir and coiling the live wood in a pot and making the tree shorter where the base would be wider.

I very much like this idea. You might also consider layering the tree off at that point. I know Junipers layer easily but I am not so sure (personally) about the risk of separating and coiling the tree understanding that this process has some risk associated with it. I am not saying not to do it, I am only commenting on the thinking process I would go through if I were faced with a potentially great tree; do I layer and wait or do I separate the live wood from the dead, coil the live wood and bury it below the soil surface and hope I don't kill the tree doing it. Either way I believe Rob has come up with the best design option that you should seriously consider.

jrodriguez wrote:Hello,

The tree is perfect how it is. Transformnig the base to make it look wider will definitely take away 90% of its movement and grace. It has a unique quality that is in itself exceptional. In my opinion, few yamadori junipers display a battle between the live and dead parts as good as this tree. In the future, when the branch structure matures, it will be one of the best in its class.

Also, a tree of this quality deserves and antique pot!!!


Kind regards,
Jose Luis

I agree Jose Luis, tinkering with this tree is out of the question.

__gary

PLEASE, do not listen to anyone who tells you to lower the tree to create stability, or anyone that tells you to put it in a garden!
This is an absolutely exquisite Bonsai, a treasure!!!
It deserves a pot that probably few can afford.
To try to hide the beauty of this tree is the equivalent of putting lipstick on the Mona Lisa to make her look prettier.
This Bonsai has a great future if treated with the respect and care it deserves. I hope you will understand your important role with this tree.
Thank you for sharing it with us.

Mark

Yannick,

I guess you can see that there is no middle ground when it comes to opinions about your wonderful little tree. Here in America we have a saying about opinions and the fact that they are like something unmentionable in polite company, but we all have one.

I'm glad to hear your plans are to leave it alone. I think you are indeed fortunate to have such a tree in your collection.

Russell

Thanks everyone for the opinions and compliments.
I like this kind of discussing:)

Trees will always have different opinions of how it has to be for people.
And i think my idea and that's keeping the tree like this,in the past i allso considered to make the tree smaller.
I like the tree how it is right now,the movement is very elegant and it tells a story about the tree.

What direction of pot would you all go for?
Would a red brown round pot in the style of a nanban(antique) be nice or not?

Greetings,
Yannick

Hi Yannick, the thurifera looks great with the new styling.
The inverse taper is not a problem unless you are a slave to the "rules". Your tree is a yamadori and as such is a gift from Mother Nature. With a yamadori it is important to work with the tree and not to stifle the naturally created beauty it has by following the "rules". It is easy to ruin a tree with arrogance, ego or even ignorance. The best that we can do is to try to arrange the foliage so that it compliments what nature has given us and to try to show the trees inner soul. Too many yamadoris end up contrived by following the rules. And it is all to easy to lose a trees individuality by making it conform to a pre set of rules.
Regarding choice of pot. You are in the enviable position of being able to use either a primitive pot or a formal pot but not too fussy. If you decide on a primitive, I would suggest getting one specially made for the juniper.
One final comment on inverse taper. Remember 90% or more of cork bark Black Pines have inverse taper but you will still see them exhibited at the Kokufu Ten.

Hi, beatiful tree very interentig moviment, only one, i think it is Juniperus sabina , it isn't thurifera .
It is posible?

@Tollster:
Thank you and youre right,i have the same opinion.

@Salva:
Normally it is a thurifera,the tree comes from spain:)

Greetings,
Yannick

As to the possibilities of shortening the trunk mentioned earlier, I would like to offer this amendment. Anyone who has or has read books and publications documenting the work of Kimura will realize that he has no aversion to doing this in order to improve the artistic merits of a piece of collected material. I know this position has been pretty universally pilloried, poo-pooed, and rejected as almost sinful and a disgrace. That's an opinion; he who owns the tree should decide. If we follow some of the reasoning put forward here the improving of collected material would not be considered legitimate and should never be done.

Vance Wood wrote:As to the possibilities of shortening the trunk mentioned earlier, I would like to offer this amendment. Anyone who has or has read books and publications documenting the work of Kimura will realize that he has no aversion to doing this in order to improve the artistic merits of a piece of collected material. I know this position has been pretty universally pilloried, poo-pooed, and rejected as almost sinful and a disgrace. That's an opinion; he who owns the tree should decide. If we follow some of the reasoning put forward here the improving of collected material would not be considered legitimate and should never be done.

I agree Vance, in fact with a different styling of the branches the shortened tree would still have plenty of movement and look good. With the skinny base the tree reminds me of the ankles and legs of a female professional golfer, Laura Davies.


http://www.womeningolf.com.au/PhotoGallery/LadyMasters2006/thumbnails/10133.jpg

or add a nice piece of deadwood down to the soil line.

I will add this amendment: To follow the advice to shorten this Bonsai would be both short sighted, small minded and would be the worst possible option for this tree. Further, to say that Kimura has shortened Bonsai and suggest that he would endorse this course is not only misleading, but I believe contrary to what Kimura would actually suggest. I wonder how many great Bonsai are destroyed by accepting suggestions such as this?

Mark

Mark wrote:I will add this amendment: To follow the advice to shorten this Bonsai would be both short sighted, small minded and would be the worst possible option for this tree. Further, to say that Kimura has shortened Bonsai and suggest that he would endorse this course is not only misleading, but I believe contrary to what Kimura would actually suggest. I wonder how many great Bonsai are destroyed by accepting suggestions such as this?

Mark

With all due respect Mark you seem to claim knowing the mind of Kimura. I did not say Kimura would endorse this course of action. I simply said if he saw it as a way of improving the tree he would do so, his books document this course of action on many examples of collected material some of which have been famous bonsai for many years. The contrary position is coming from the point of view of extreme conservatism, rejecting out of hand any thought of doing such a thing, implying that a collected tree has sacred qualities that should not be messed with. This was the opinion hinted at if not stated directly. I wonder how many great bonsai never become great---- because the artist/owner is unwilling, too timid, or convinced otherwise that this is an unwise direction to go?

Mr. Wood,

By stating that all views opposite to "your" idea come from a traditional standpoint is quite anomalous, mainly when you accuse Mike of "reading Kimura's mind." Can you read mine? Do you know me or my bonsai background? Maybe you are well acquainted witi Gary or with those that oppose your views.

Kimura Masahiko is indeed a bonsai master, but there are a lot of people out there just as good or maybe better. I have read Kimura San's three bonsai books. One thing seems to be the vortex of his trunk reduction technique; eliminating straight portions of collected material to better its quality.

I have had the blessing of seeing high mountain juniper in Central Taiwan. Once you are before these miracles of nature, your styling views will totally change.

Jose

jrodriguez wrote:Mr. Wood,

By stating that all views opposite to "your" idea come from a traditional standpoint is quite anomalous, mainly when you accuse Mike of "reading Kimura's mind." Can you read mine? Do you know me or my bonsai background? Maybe you are well acquainted witi Gary or with those that oppose your views.

I said no such thing that all views but mine are anomalous. As to reading Kimura's mind? The way mike phrased his statement seemed to indicate that he knew what Kimura would do here. And even in this first paragraph it seems more like a personal attack than a discussion about the merits of ideas. It is obvious you disagree with me but there is no need to be disagreeable in doing so.

[/quote]Kimura Masahiko is indeed a bonsai master, but there are a lot of people out there just as good or maybe better. I have read Kimura San's three bonsai books. One thing seems to be the vortex of his trunk reduction technique; eliminating straight portions of collected material to better its quality.[/quote]

And the point of this is??? The portion of the trunk in this tree can be better if the tree is shortened. Again you disagree, that's fine, why does it have to be personal?

[/quote]I have had the blessing of seeing high mountain juniper in Central Taiwan. Once you are before these miracles of nature, your styling views will totally change.[/quote]

So you are suggesting that I don't know what I am talking about, is that the meaning of this portion of your argument? Have you ever seen the Bristle-cone Pines in the high Rocky Mountains? Have you ever seen the high planes Junipers all twisted, bleached and teitering on the edge of existence? Just because I have not been to Taiwan does not mean I have never seen the magic of nature.





Jose[/quote]