Dwarf Bald cypress Peve Minaret any suggestions?

I ran across these at a small local nursery and he said if I take all 10 he would sale them for 15 each and I couldnt pass them up lol... now where to start and what to do is the question at hand. Anyone with experience with these all have 2" plus trunk with taper and great nebari.. My wife is going to kill me [img] image hosting[/img]

Trunk Chops
For example, second tree from the right, the base is OK but then you have a long section without taper, you can see an old trunk chop at the top of the bottom section, cut about ONE INCH above that point, grow a year cut one inch higher that then last cut, this develops taper. Keep wet, they bud back.

[img] adult image hosting[/img] by the way how do i rotate pics lol

to make nice trees out of each one individually i'd go with billys advice - but you'll soon get bored with 10 trees the same so a forest planting with 9 of them could be the way to go. To get size variation though is the key point - it will look rubbish if all the trees are the same so i'd be looking to grow one on quite a bit bigger , grow 2 to be medium sized and the rest will be fine the way they are. to get bigger quickly 3 trees need to go in the ground for a while. Then you need a nice slab or big oval pot

have fun,

marcus

Definitely a forest planting. By the way, I believe these are all grafted...that's where that first large chop scar came from (removing the top of the root stock). I'm not sure if or how that will affect the development of this material.

I disagree with the grafting theory. They have typical bald cypress growth on a young tree when a truck is chopped. One leader dominates all the rest of the shoots and within a year in a humid southern state the new leader will be nearly the size of the base on a young tree.

I think what others are saying would be a good plan. If you keep them plenty moist and they get lots of sun, you will have more shoots then you know what to do with. So don't hesitate to chop them back or plant a few in the ground.

marcus watts wrote:to make nice trees out of each one individually i'd go with billys advice - but you'll soon get bored with 10 trees the same so a forest planting with 9 of them could be the way to go. To get size variation though is the key point - it will look rubbish if all the trees are the same so i'd be looking to grow one on quite a bit bigger , grow 2 to be medium sized and the rest will be fine the way they are. to get bigger quickly 3 trees need to go in the ground for a while. Then you need a nice slab or big oval pot

have fun,

marcus

I agree with you lol 10 is extreme but, i wanted the deal i figure I will follow Billy's advice any yours also and plant a couple for a few yrs. I will probably only keep 3 or 4and gift or sale the rest

MikeT307 wrote:I disagree with the grafting theory. They have typical bald cypress growth on a young tree when a truck is chopped. One leader dominates all the rest of the shoots and within a year in a humid southern state the new leader will be nearly the size of the base on a young tree.

I think what others are saying would be a good plan. If you keep them plenty moist and they get lots of sun, you will have more shoots then you know what to do with. So don't hesitate to chop them back or plant a few in the ground.

Thanks I was just sitting here thinking about he said (grafting) Maybe even do a few shoots in a forest planting as he said. Those look really unique

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Trunk Chops
For example, second tree from the right, the base is OK but then you have a long section without taper, you can see an old trunk chop at the top of the bottom section, cut about ONE INCH above that point, grow a year cut one inch higher that then last cut, this develops taper. Keep wet, they bud back.

when would you reccomend doing the trunk chop Billy?

MikeT307 wrote:I disagree with the grafting theory. They have typical bald cypress growth on a young tree when a truck is chopped. One leader dominates all the rest of the shoots and within a year in a humid southern state the new leader will be nearly the size of the base on a young tree.

Just to be clear, Peve Minaret is a dwarf cultivar of Taxodium. With this in mind, why would a landscape nursery be chopping slow growing dwarf cultivars down low...doesn't make sense to me. I don't know if this cultivar can be grown from cuttings, but the few different cultivars of taxodium I have seen were all grafted, and these look grafted to me.

I've never seen or heard of a grafted bald cypress . . . which doesn't mean there aren't any. I just don't see the point in it. Cuttings are so easy. These look like chops to me -- and they'd chop a dwarf for the same reason as you'd chop any -- to develop taper.

Dave Murphy wrote:

MikeT307 wrote:I disagree with the grafting theory. They have typical bald cypress growth on a young tree when a truck is chopped. One leader dominates all the rest of the shoots and within a year in a humid southern state the new leader will be nearly the size of the base on a young tree.

Just to be clear, Peve Minaret is a dwarf cultivar of Taxodium. With this in mind, why would a landscape nursery be chopping slow growing dwarf cultivars down low...doesn't make sense to me. I don't know if this cultivar can be grown from cuttings, but the few different cultivars of taxodium I have seen were all grafted, and these look grafted to me.

Me too, Dave. You are 100 percent correct. They ARE grafted.

I planted three T. distichum cultivars in my yard in MA; "Cascade falls", "Peve minaret", and "Shawnee brave...the first 2 were definitely grafted...I don't remember if the third was a graft or not. None of them were "chopped for taper", I assume, because they were destined to be landscape plants. I don't know if these are grafted, but they could be and that was all my post was intended to point out. Good luck with your trees.

I've never seen a 'Cascade falls' or 'Peve minaret' that wasn't grafted. Not saying they don't exist, but all the ones I've seen were also grown for the landscape trade and not bonsai. So why graft bald cypress? I don't know. Maybe these are just very slow to root, and with a poor success rate. Like camellias, citrus and Japanese maples maybe the growers get a stronger plant faster by grafting.

If you don't believe these are grafted, cut one below the "chop" and see what sprouts back.

I learned something, Cypress are grafted and there are cultivars of Cypress.

Russell Coker wrote:
I've never seen a 'Cascade falls' or 'Peve minaret' that wasn't grafted. Not saying they don't exist, but all the ones I've seen were also grown for the landscape trade and not bonsai. So why graft bald cypress? I don't know. Maybe these are just very slow to root, and with a poor success rate. Like camellias, citrus and Japanese maples maybe the growers get a stronger plant faster by grafting.

If you don't believe these are grafted, cut one below the "chop" and see what sprouts back.

so then this was a bad deal? Your shooting my dreams lol

Good Lord no, it wasn't a bad deal! I'd kill to find those. I think you got the deal of the century. The last time I saw one of those for sale it was about 5 feet tall, had the taper and interest of a broom stick and had no lower branches. And it also cost what you paid for all of these.

I was only commenting about the grafted/not grafted part of the conversation. If they were mine I'd pot them up and try to get some growth on them. I think that's what it's going to take to make that graft union disappear. It will take some time but it will happen. This variety is very fastigiated so I'd watch to make sure they don't try to shed those lower branches.

I would have bought every one of them too.

Russell Coker wrote:

Good Lord no, it wasn't a bad deal! I'd kill to find those. I think you got the deal of the century. The last time I saw one of those for sale it was about 5 feet tall, had the taper and interest of a broom stick and had no lower branches. And it also cost what you paid for all of these.

I was only commenting about the grafted/not grafted part of the conversation. If they were mine I'd pot them up and try to get some growth on them. I think that's what it's going to take to make that graft union disappear. It will take some time but it will happen. This variety is very fastigiated so I'd watch to make sure they don't try to shed those lower branches.

I would have bought every one of them too.

Oh ok cool I have some extra pots laying around about twice the size. I am sure they need repoted roots coming out the bottom

I went ahead and chopped one of them today. This should be fun to work with in tim e.
[img] adult image hosting[/img]

what about getting a giant taxodium and using these dwarf varieties as thread grafts to form the branches? I have a huge crepe myrtle that I plan on using a bunch of 1 gallon dwarf crepe myrtles I got on clearance as thread grafting for its limbs after its cut back. I saw that guy on the orlando bonsai website do the crepe myrtle thing but I havent seen any updates to see if it worked.

bucknbonsai wrote:what about getting a giant taxodium and using these dwarf varieties as thread grafts to form the branches? I have a huge crepe myrtle that I plan on using a bunch of 1 gallon dwarf crepe myrtles I got on clearance as thread grafting for its limbs after its cut back. I saw that guy on the orlando bonsai website do the crepe myrtle thing but I havent seen any updates to see if it worked.

That could be very interesting.....

Russell
If these are true Dwarf cultivars they would have to be grafted from a witches broom, to BC rootage. Reason being true dwarfs are sterile, am I right in thinking this? Either way plant them in the ground fatten them up and chop them often to create taper. Then dig them up and begin bonsai training.

Good find

Mitch

Mitch Thomas wrote:
If these are true Dwarf cultivars they would have to be grafted from a witches broom, to BC rootage. Reason being true dwarfs are sterile, am I right in thinking this?

I don't think that's correct Mitch. I have a friend who has 2 dwarf slash pines at his nursery that were grown from seed collected from a witch's broom! They are compact, stocky trees, but still about 10 ft tall. I doubt that this particular BC came from a witch's broom, I'd bet that it was a random seedling. I found a podocarpus like that years ago in a group of seedlings. I also know of a huge BC in a yard here that weeps, and I know that it was a wild tree, not planted.

"Dwarf" is a vague term. I'll include a picture of a 'PM' BC that's about 8ft tall at our botanical gardens and it's only been in the ground a few years. And what about 'little gem' magnolia? It's a "dwarf", but it still gets pretty damn big. As for viable seed, I have no idea.

Russell
Ahh ok I don't remember where I Got that from, maybe from a gentleman in Kentucky when i was at abs/BCI where my friend got one on a raffle? CRS anyway

Mitch

What's CRS? Crap Russell Says?