Sageretias theezans - foliage problem

I have recently been given a sageretias theezans (around three weeks ago) - I really liked the colour of its foliage and it looked pretty much healthy with new branches sprouting out of everywhere. I used to keep its soil moist at all times, put it in a humidity tray and poured around 5mls bonsai feed every two weeks (as instructed on the bonsai bottle feed and from various internet sources). Put it next to a window with plenty of light all day. Below are some pictures after a couple of days that I received it:-



Since the beginning of May, its leaves started to wilt and it's a real pity that they've ended up to this state. I think I may have scorched the leaves but I never put it under direct sunlight. Temperatures in my country are around 25 degrees celsius (77 fahrenheit). Now I changed its position and put it in a cooler room. Can you help me out please by offering further solutions to my problem? Many thanks in advance.

First of all, it should be outside for the summer. Not sure of the details of your climate, but it probably should be outdoors most of the year.
Your soil looks terrible. Contact the local bonsai society and find out where to get proper bonsai soil. Meanwhile, don't water until the soil starts to dry out, & hold off on the fertilizer for now.
Sageretia is a warm growing tropical. I don't think you have to keep it cool.
Humidity trays are a myth, but I doubt if humidity is your problem.
If you are buying liquid bonsai fertilizer in a bottle, you are getting ripped off. Use ordinary houseplant fertilizer that you buy in powder form. The only exception is fish emulsion, which normally comes as a liquid. You can use it once a month or so alternately with other fertilizer.
Iris

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I don't think keeping it outdoors will be a good idea in summer. Ours is a Mediterranean climate, extremely hot and dry during summers... so much so that only olives, vines and cactus can survive this climate between mid-may till at least end september.

What's the matter with the soil? Should it be more moist? That photo was shot the first or second day I got it as a gift.

I'll hold the water until the soil dries out as you suggested and I refrain from putting in any bonsai feed.

One thing which I forgot to tell you in my previous post is that the only part which started wilting was the part facing indoors... the part facing outside the window was green as ever. I tried to change positions but all of it ended up getting brownish.

If you are using a "humidity" tray the tree might have stayed too wet and you have root rot. Please describe how you are watering the tree.

Face it. We can't all grow everything. I can't grow Sageretia either, and Rob Kempinski, for all his talent, can't grow larches. Ask the members of the Malta bonsai society if they grow this species. I would consider it a greenhouse plant. It is possible that even indoors, the humidity is too low. There are many bonsai species that are suitable for your climate, not just olives.
Iris

xilepp wrote:
What's the matter with the soil?

It looks like just plain dirt. It is probably a typical greenhouse soil, unsuitable for bonsai. Bonsai require a very loose, gravelly, well-drained soil.
Iris

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:If you are using a "humidity" tray the tree might have stayed too wet and you have root rot. Please describe how you are watering the tree.

I take great care in not causing the soil to turn too soggy or not too dry. But let us suppose that problem is root rot, what do I need to do curb the problem? I followed this guide here: http://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Sageretia.html

bonsaisr wrote:Face it. We can't all grow everything. I can't grow Sageretia either, and Rob Kempinski, for all his talent, can't grow larches. Ask the members of the Malta bonsai society if they grow this species. I would consider it a greenhouse plant. It is possible that even indoors, the humidity is too low. There are many bonsai species that are suitable for your climate, not just olives.
Iris

With all due respect, I think the intention of this forum is of helping others who got enamoured with the art of growing bonsai. I find your attitude highly non-compliant with this forum's aim.

The plant was bought and grown i Malta, there were tens of sageretias in the garden shop and I even contacted the Malta bonsai society which in turn have gladly offered some tips too. Your tips turned out to be exactly the opposite of the consistent information I've been reading in books and the internet. I mean, I won't even dream of keeping bonsai outdoors in summer in direct sunlight at 35-40 degrees celsius (in shade). And I'm even having second thoughts about letting it dry completely as you suggested. Furthermore I put it in somewhere cooler because I've read that sageretias hate permanently heated rooms as much as they hate cold rooms. Finally, now that you've admitted that you're not capable of growing sageretias I'm unsure if I shall attribute any weight at all to your tips and advices.

Come on now. Iris has been growing plants -- from orchids to bonsai -- for a long time, and doesn't give gratuitous advice, so attack mode isn't called for.

Sageritia is a tropical species, and can take heat and sunlight. Your dry desert-like air might be difficult for it, but if kept in partial sun it should do fine outdoors. NO plant does as well indoors as it would outside, temperature permitting.

I suspect that your soil is the major culprit and that you need to find some granular bonsai soil. Finding a local club and following their instructions will be your best approach. I know of NO book that was written in Malta that would describe the conditions under which one of these should be kept in your area. Bonsai4me is an English site and written with the English climate in mind and that is far different than yours.

You probably need to repot -- and soon.

As someone else who is new here, the criticism may seem harsh. However, keep in mind that these people are only trying to help you, not insult you. I'm not anywhere near as experienced as the others, but if that were my tree, I would definitely reconsider the soil. Some trees do like to be wet and do like fine soils. Where I live, we don't even have soil; trees basically grow in sand. The problem is, your tree is not doing well and it's probably because it's too wet.

xilepp wrote:
With all due respect, I think the intention of this forum is of helping others who got enamoured with the art of growing bonsai. I find your attitude highly non-compliant with this forum's aim.

The plant was bought and grown i Malta, there were tens of sageretias in the garden shop and I even contacted the Malta bonsai society which in turn have gladly offered some tips too. Your tips turned out to be exactly the opposite of the consistent information I've been reading in books and the internet. I mean, I won't even dream of keeping bonsai outdoors in summer in direct sunlight at 35-40 degrees celsius (in shade). And I'm even having second thoughts about letting it dry completely as you suggested. Furthermore I put it in somewhere cooler because I've read that sageretias hate permanently heated rooms as much as they hate cold rooms. Finally, now that you've admitted that you're not capable of growing sageretias I'm unsure if I shall attribute any weight at all to your tips and advices.

This post is uncalled for and I think an apology is needed. She is helping you and qualified her answer. It is up to you to determine whether the info is helpful or not but do not lash on her.

For your info I live in Texas and most of my plants are in direct sunlight the whole day. Currently we are around 95*F (35*C) and in summer we may have more than a week straight with 105*F (40*C) temps. Most common plant killers are under watering, over watering, over fertilizing, and keeping them indoors (=lack of light and humidity).

Personally, I would repot and bring it out (in shade) if this is mine.

Good luck to you.

Hmmm. I wonder if everyone needed to jump all over this person. One might have been enough. It'll be interesting to see if we hear from him/her again. :-(

totally agree Jim,

The problem with this tree stems from the original material - they are commercially grown in high humidity and excelent quality light in huge numbers to supply the demand for inexpensive bonsai. (they are probably not grown in Malta, these trees are imported in their 1000's) The trees get a hard chop back, sprout very tender new shoots and the root ball is virtually cut to shape so it fits in the pot - there is just the rectangle of grey field soil squeezed into the pots so no new root tips and no room for them to form.

To understand the mass production of these in the Uk we see these in supermarkets like Lidl and Aldi for £2.99, (Tesco for £5.99!, petrol stations for £9.99 etc) and a few years back they used to be about £1.30 ish (trade) if you bought a large enough number of them. When you see a few on the shelf look for the elms as they are much stronger and can be kept alive much easier but the best way to go is this...........return the dead (dying) one for an exchange, you have total consumer rights........pick a new healthy one and take it home. Immeadiately remove it from the pot and gently wash off all the grey sandy soil and replace it with a better quality soil. If the roots form a solid mass you need a slightly bigger pot so there is 2-3cm of space and new soil all around the roots.

water really well and wait - sometimes all the leavees fall off, sometimes they dont, but a new set of leaves will open - dont water again until the new soil looks dry. once you perfect keeping one of these alive you will grow anything. Good luck

EDIT.....The unfortunate part about the posters comments to Iris is that you will always learn more from someones mistakes than their successes, so poster you should be willing to weigh up what they say & not totally dismis it. I dont keep one of these trees, but it doesnt mean my advice is bad or wrong as I've seen many 100's of these mass produced trees pass through the nursery - they live in the nice humid greenhouse like 'indoor tree' sales area but mostly they die in houses. (all get repotted like i said though).

Marcus

Hello All,

if you take the time to search the internet, you may see a few images of Sageretias under snow.
It isn't a tropical shrub/viner, same as the Fukien tea is also not tropical, they just have the ability to adapt.
Mainland China, is at it's warmest sub-tropical, and has frost. Maybe at a half mile from the sea, you can get
tropical ???????

Growing with enough humidity, the Sparrow plum can take full tropical sun here in the West Indies.

From the images shown, the soil needs to be changed and if the grower has the time, cuttings taken and then they should be used for practice techniques.
Often the imported plants are very weak and need good growing conditions for at least 3 years. I have observed this on elms, and the Chinese type serissa, as well as on the Sparrow plum.

Best to Malta.
Khaimraj