WILD OLIVE CASCADE....GIFT OF NATURE

[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]
After a good two hours walk on a glorious day,i got my reward....A wild olive,with a lot of rooting,and very bushy...I cut off too much foliage,the tree is very strong and fotos dont do it much justice,hopefully by this weekend i take some better fotos....I would like your opinion on completely defoliating yamadories(especialy olives).I want to point out again that this tree had a lot of roots...What do you think about it?

WOW!

Very nice and if you have a chance...take more walks!!!

Hi,
I really like the aged broad base of this tree....i don't know about the cascade branch which seems sort of "out of place"

Personally i would reduce the cascade to a stump and use the rest of the base to create a powerful upright tree

savvas wrote: ... ....I would like your opinion on completely defoliating yamadories(especialy olives).I want to point out again that this tree had a lot of roots...What do you think about it?

Hello, Savvas!
I have defoliated collected wild olives and phillireas almost completely but I have come to the conclusion that the tree itself will shed and keep only what it can support.
But... what do I know, I am a beginner you know. However what I would do if this tree was mine is a lot more thining out small branches and reducing the cascade branch.

I personally like the cascade branch quite a bit...just my two cents.

Either way a very nice find that should develop nicely.

Thanks for your replies everyone...i like the cascade very much,let it recover first and then we see how i will proceed....

stavros wrote:Hi,
I really like the aged broad base of this tree....i don't know about the cascade branch which seems sort of "out of place"

I agree that though the tree is very nice...the cascading branch does not have as much character as the main trunk. Unless it can be brought to the same level...it might hold it back from becoming a great bonsai.

Hi, you'll probably find in a county with literally hundreds of stumpy sumo like olives just about everywhere the fact that this is a natural cascade is all the reason needed to work with the branch and certainly not cut it off. Why remove the unique feature to make it look like every other olive tree?

I know a cascade design is not everyones favorite, but thats mostly because it is quite hard to do a good one, but done well they are brilliant, and i think this tree has everything needed to be a unique high quality cascade wild olive. An amazing find to come home with.

good luck with it,

Marcus

savvas wrote:I would like your opinion on completely defoliating yamadories(especialy olives).I want to point out again that this tree had a lot of roots...What do you think about it?

Hi Savvas,

why do you want to defoliate this tree!?!?!?
To me it makes no sense! The leafs are already very small as it is normal for olives.
And to see the inner branches structure?! This does also make no sense since you will not see through the leafs when they are regrown.
You also say the tree is very healthy so why changing this?
Ofcourse you should or can remove some or even many branches. But in my opinion it's a bad idea to remove all foliage!


Don't just defoliate because you want to. Even for a healthy olive this is risky and torture.

Max

Man, that is amazing material. Totally jealous.

WOW! I really like the cascade alot, I would leave it alone you don't see that many cascade olives. It would be nice to be able to collect olive like your's here in CA., but I guess I'll have to settle for oaks,redwoods and Cal.junipers. LOL!

Hello,
very nice tree,natural cascades olives are growing in MALLORCA also.
On wilds olives trees, d'ont defoliate the tree , only on large-leaved olive trees grafted ( on olives grafted, in April, remove all leaves, except two in the middle of the branches , and cut after the leaves , the tree will emit new buds at the base of each leaf branches cutted.)
A pohotographie off a natural cascade olive ( Angel MOTTA , MALLORCA )

[img][/img]

Max Engels wrote:

savvas wrote:I would like your opinion on completely defoliating yamadories(especialy olives).I want to point out again that this tree had a lot of roots...What do you think about it?

Hi Savvas,

why do you want to defoliate this tree!?!?!?
To me it makes no sense! The leafs are already very small as it is normal for olives.
And to see the inner branches structure?! This does also make no sense since you will not see through the leafs when they are regrown.
You also say the tree is very healthy so why changing this?
Ofcourse you should or can remove some or even many branches. But in my opinion it's a bad idea to remove all foliage!


Don't just defoliate because you want to. Even for a healthy olive this is risky and torture.

Max

Well, some people do remove all branches when they collect them.
Have a look at what Antoni Payeras does with collected olive trees : http://www.bonsaimenorca.com/articulos/recuperacion-de-ullastres-yamadori/
(My spanish is lousy so i used the translator)

It is very difficult to wire branches thicker than a few millimetres with olives, so it is wiser at times to grow the branches from scratch and "guide" them in place from the very beginning.

Hey Stavros,

thanks for your reply! Of course sometimes the thicker branches brake.
(I rewire two yamadori olives each year.)
But even though it is easier to regrow all branches and cut them off
it is still a risk or at least not necassary in my opinion.
I know olives are very healthy trees though.

BW
Max

Hi Savvas,

Great olive . well done.

I am not sure if the remaining root system is able to fullfill the demands of the rich foliage.
I do agree that during the life time of an olive tree in a pot, complete defoliation is not a good idea. On the other hand my humble opinion for a fresh collected yamdori olive is that a partial or complete defoliation its a must. Defoliation will give you a higher rate of succes.

Greg wrote:Hi Savvas,

Great olive . well done.

I am not sure if the remaining root system is able to fullfill the demands of the rich foliage.
I do agree that during the life time of an olive tree in a pot, complete defoliation is not a good idea. On the other hand my humble opinion for a fresh collected yamdori olive is that a partial or complete defoliation its a must. Defoliation will give you a higher rate of succes.

Hey Greg,

that's why I say he should just cut of the no longer needed branches and leave the rest including its foliage.
That way the tree will for sure stay healthy as it doesn't need to regrow completely and the rootsystem confirms to the upper part of the tree without having to provide the development of totaly new green.

Max Engels wrote:

Greg wrote:Hi Savvas,

Great olive . well done.

I am not sure if the remaining root system is able to fullfill the demands of the rich foliage.
I do agree that during the life time of an olive tree in a pot, complete defoliation is not a good idea. On the other hand my humble opinion for a fresh collected yamdori olive is that a partial or complete defoliation its a must. Defoliation will give you a higher rate of succes.

Hey Greg,

that's why I say he should just cut of the no longer needed branches and leave the rest including its foliage.
That way the tree will for sure stay healthy as it doesn't need to regrow completely and the rootsystem confirms to the upper part of the tree without having to provide the development of totaly new green.

Hi Max,

this is a good idea The only problem I can see is that you take it for granted that the remaing branches ( the chosen ones )will all survive.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought you should try to keep as much foliage (proportionate to the root system as possible) and let the tree to decide how much it can really support. It either shed some leaves, or the leaves help encourage the tree to grow more roots, or combination of both. Either way, the tree will adapt.

I am not THE olive yamadori specialist, but so far i have personally collected many (dozens).
According to my experience, the wild olive can be collected almost as a hardwood cutting. In this case i remove almost all leaves. If here is a bit of root, i remove most of the leaves.
One of my yamadori buddies (Greg) removes all the leaves in most cases. The other yamadori buddy, Savvas, hasn't made up his mind yet whether to remove or not
We all have similar results. It is rare to loose an olive tree.

An example would be this....tree collected in november 2010

all foliage was removed

this is the growth in April 2011

...and after pruning, wiring in May 2011, this is the growth in September

this is how it looks today


I'm just trying to show that even with complete removal of foliage, the olive trees grow wild if the proper substrate is used and aggressive fertilisation is applied along with generous watering.
The tree has a long way until it becomes a bonsai.

stavros wrote:In this case i remove almost all leaves. If here is a bit of root, i remove most of the leaves.
One of my yamadori buddies (Greg) removes all the leaves in most cases. The other yamadori buddy, Savvas, hasn't made up his mind yet whether to remove or not
We all have similar results. It is rare to loose an olive tree.

Hey Stavros,

yes for sure its rare to loose an olive. I didn't write any different. But it is possible! I for my own know about 3 or 4 yamadori olives that suffered after cutting everything of. 2 of them died later on. But even if it's hard to loose an olive this is not the answer to what is best for an olive after having caught it. I think Savvas wants to know how to minimize the risk and not that the risk already is low!?
So you say it doesn't matter. But my answer (caused by my experience in that context) still remains. Allthough I am sorry for it!

BW
Max

marcus watts wrote:Hi, you'll probably find in a county with literally hundreds of stumpy sumo like olives just about everywhere the fact that this is a natural cascade is all the reason needed to work with the branch and certainly not cut it off. Why remove the unique feature to make it look like every other olive tree?

I know a cascade design is not everyones favorite, but thats mostly because it is quite hard to do a good one, but done well they are brilliant, and i think this tree has everything needed to be a unique high quality cascade wild olive. An amazing find to come home with.

good luck with it,

Marcus

Very well written. I agree with Marcus. Yamadori brilliant cascade.
Gretings Pavel

Guys,i dont want to defoliate,there is a debate between me and Greg on this subject..i myself feel that its a pity to defoliate this tree,however if i felt that i didnt get enough roots then maybe i would have done it.anyway i allready cut away too much foliage which i am sure will help the tree to recover faster...as far as the cascade branch,i like it very much and i dont know if its my fotos and some of you have the feeling that its not part of the rest of the tree..What suprised me about this tree is that it didnt have nearly any dead foliage at all,and any dead wood,and the main structure of it is all old as the trunk,and so is the cascade branch...thx for your comments everyone....Savvas.

For all the reasons stated by Marcus, the cascade branch should stay.
This will be a special tree, I look forward to seeing it develop.