Common juniper

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Common juniper

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:11 pm

Hello, friends! This is the biggest juniper I've ever found in the woods in my part of Russia (Moscow and neighboring regions). I dug it out in 2008 and since then it was planted in the ground and looked rather healthy, however when I potted it for the first time this spring (in a large plastic box) I discovered that major part of the roots (except a compact root ball on one remaining thick rooot) was actually dead. Hence, the only styling solution I saw was to make a dramatic fukinagashi with root ball largely pulled out of the soil yet surviving on the remaining roots. It is rather large as one can see on the photo with my son who is 5 months (70 cm tall). It was just repotted in the current pot that in my view is far from ideal. It seems that perhaps this tree needs something more landscapic if I may say so, a slab or something.

I would appreciate any ideas on a kind of pot that would compliment the tree better.

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Andrei


This is the photo taken in early August prior to styling with roots already bared of dead bark.


With my son following styling and reporting.


The final result so far....

Andrei Darusenkov
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:01 pm

Very dramatic, good luck.

Billy M. Rhodes
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  manosvince on Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:21 pm

You say that there is not enough root to support the tree?

manosvince
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:27 am

manosvince wrote:You say that there is not enough root to support the tree?
No, judging by active growth the size of the root ball is sufficient.Smile

Andrei Darusenkov
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Hombre on Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:12 pm

Privet Andrei

You have a very nice material with many possibilities, I would try bring the foliage to the opposite side, I think in this way the tree would have a more harmonious look.

У вас есть прекрасный сын Smile
Best regards Lazaros

Hombre
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:56 pm

Hombre wrote:Privet Andrei

You have a very nice material with many possibilities, I would try bring the foliage to the opposite side, I think in this way the tree would have a more harmonious look.

У вас есть прекрасный сын Smile
Best regards Lazaros

Lazaros, many thanks! Your Russian is quite good! Smile I thought over your proposal carefully, however it seems to me that bringing foliage against the movement of main trunks would make the composition illogical. Anyway, thanks for you proposal that pushed me to think it over again!

Cheers,

Andrei

Andrei Darusenkov
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Pavel Slovák on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:21 pm

Hi Andrei
Nice and interesting tree. Very Happy
Smal idea.
Gretings Pavel


Pavel Slovák
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  NeilDellinger on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:41 pm

Can we see the back of this tree?

Have you considered standing it up and changing the planting angle. I realize there are likely some roots to adjust, but you could explore that option. Also, the option of building the tree of the smaller diameter branches to the left, as opposed to the big thick straight trunk.

Lets see the back, if you wouldn't mind Smile

Neil

NeilDellinger
Member


Back to top Go down

re common juniper

Post  john5555leonard on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:02 am

hi andrei, please go slowly with this species, i am surprised its still alive , we have a lot of juniper communis in england but nobody could get them to survive, and the problem with them is that they die slowly bit by bit so when you think , ok that bits dead but this is still alive i will use this , when you start to wire that bit dies as well . have you any others that you have worked on already?? . i have known them take up to 5 years to die. i do not like to be negative but be warned, maybe some of our other members that still live in england can offer some more positive advice , regards john

john5555leonard
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  marcus watts on Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:49 am

john5555leonard wrote:hi andrei, please go slowly with this species, i am surprised its still alive , we have a lot of juniper communis in england but nobody could get them to survive, and the problem with them is that they die slowly bit by bit so when you think , ok that bits dead but this is still alive i will use this , when you start to wire that bit dies as well . have you any others that you have worked on already?? . i have known them take up to 5 years to die. i do not like to be negative but be warned, maybe some of our other members that still live in england can offer some more positive advice , regards john

As above - its a tree that takes a long time to die when dug up - as john mentions 3-5 years is relatively common. Wiring and root pruning can effect it very badly, so a tree that grows well in a box suddenly hates being a bonsai, but maybe a russian tree will live longer as it will spend a longer period dormant in the winters. I certainly would not ever consider using a small shallow bit of rock or slab as a pot as this would limit the roots even more.

We were discussing the species a few months back and a very experienced person offered his observations of 30yrs+.....one part of his theory was that the tree, roots and surrounding soil have a strong symbiotic relationship with each other - when the tree is dug and put in a box it still has some natural soil on the rootball,and growth is often seen. As the tree is repotted and the soil changed for 'bonsai soil' the bacteria, fungus or whatever unknown substance keeping the tree alive is lost.........now the tree begins its slow death as a bonsai. When you look at the UK the common junipers in the wild they are in very specific areas rather than spread far and wide. there must be a critical condition required that is very localised, even more so as this is such a small country, and i think it is these special conditions that only very rarely occur in a bonsai pot, and are even harder to maintain for ever more.

Good luck with the tree - russia could be totally different to the UK, it may grow like a weed Very Happy

marcus watts
Member


Back to top Go down

they break your heart... however

Post  Tony on Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:35 am

I collected Communis over 25 years ago... they stayed alive for 5 years... or should I say they stayed 'green' for five years, and it is only in the last 3 years that have resumed collecting them in the UK. I have three trees, collected at different times of the year, planted in different soil mixes, I have cared for them in the same way... they are all thriving and throwing out new strong growth.

Marcus is correct the growing conditions are very particular... I will not be posting any photos nor shouting from the rooftops that I have indeed solved the difficult issue of keeping them alive. I have NOT attempted to style, nor wire or repot yet... however when investigating the soil I have an abundance of new fine red roots.

Once I am happy that all is well. I will post my findings here on IBC

Anyone visiting my garden can see these trees... lets hope they are still hear in three years time bounce

_________________
Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

Visit Tony's Bonsai website

If you Tweet?

Tony
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  ShohinDude on Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:24 pm

Tony, I know for a fact that quite a few people are dying to hear what you have to say on this subject.
We have heaps and heaps of beautiful J.communis here, but I do not dare to collect any as in the past they all died pretty damn fast.
If the secret to success with this species will be cracked, it would be a major leap for bonsai hobby in Europe.

ShohinDude
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Tony on Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:30 pm

ShohinDude wrote:Tony, I know for a fact that quite a few people are dying to hear what you have to say on this subject.
We have heaps and heaps of beautiful J.communis here, but I do not dare to collect any as in the past they all died pretty damn fast.
If the secret to success with this species will be cracked, it would be a major leap for bonsai hobby in Europe.

ShohinDude... the overriding difference between where I used to collect (limestone) and now (granite) is a major factor. I have spoken at length with Christian Przybylski who has successfully grown and shown Communis for many years you can visit his website Here.. but he gives very little away... and I respect that.

_________________
Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

Visit Tony's Bonsai website

If you Tweet?

Tony
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  ShohinDude on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:21 pm

Well, here it is just granite. Also, here junipers are usually found in rather wet locations with lots of live sphagnum and peat.
The soil where they seem to thrive in the wild here is far from well draining.
I feel that what works for J.communis collected from the Alps might not work for our junipers at all. Or then it might.

I'll stick with my pines for now...


Last edited by ShohinDude on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

ShohinDude
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Guest on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:46 pm

This little shohin common juniper, was collected on granit, in 2005.
I have used one part leca, and one part cocopeat, all the time. The tree is healthy Smile.





Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:17 pm

Pavel Slovák wrote:Hi Andrei
Nice and interesting tree. Very Happy
Smal idea.
Gretings Pavel


Pavel, I was thinking the same thing - not such a small idea but it would make a cool raft style.

Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:50 am

Pavel Slovák wrote:Hi Andrei
Nice and interesting tree. Very Happy
Smal idea.
Gretings Pavel

Pavel, many thanks! You think along the same line as I do.Smile I just wonder whether horticulturally such a slab would be appropriate? Smile

Andrei Darusenkov
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:56 am

NeilDellinger wrote:Can we see the back of this tree?

Have you considered standing it up and changing the planting angle. I realize there are likely some roots to adjust, but you could explore that option. Also, the option of building the tree of the smaller diameter branches to the left, as opposed to the big thick straight trunk.

Lets see the back, if you wouldn't mind Smile

Neil

Neil,

Thanks for you suggestions. Adjusting the root ball should not be a problem. It seems to me that building upon the smaller diameter branches to the left would left little of the tree and perhaps more importantly would make the tree to loose its special character.

Here are some photos of the back and top of the tree....




Andrei Darusenkov
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:11 pm

My experience so far with common juniper was that once they are established they are not a huge problem. However, reporting should be done very carefully with mininal disturbance of the root ball (exactly as suggested by Nick Lenz in his book) and survival rate after transfer from nature has not been that impressive. Nevertheless, I have a few common junipers that are surviving quite well though not extreemly promising. Most of them were collected from sandy soils with very humid moss top layer that very ofter induces rot at nebari level.




Andrei Darusenkov
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Pavel Slovák on Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:23 pm

Hi Andrei
Nice Trees.
Maybe I thought about small adjustments. Very Happy Wink
Gretings Pavel


Pavel Slovák
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Common juniper

Post  Sponsored content Today at 4:20 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum