killing pest and insects

View previous topic View next topic Go down

killing pest and insects

Post  杰遨-jie on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:04 am

Hello all!~ For those who use pesticides , what are your views on killing the bugs that take over the tree? I want to have my own bonsai garden some day in the future however I'm against pesticides and killing bugs or pest...Has anyone had success growing bonsai without using pesticides or killing anything? cheers


Jieao

杰遨-jie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  David D on Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:26 am

no

David D
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  杰遨-jie on Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:50 am

David Forsyth wrote:no
.......how sad Shocked

杰遨-jie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  my nellie on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:08 am

No, from me too. And not only concerning bonsais but plants into pots in general....

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  杰遨-jie on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:03 am

do you think the buddhist monks that introduced bonsai from china to japan killed pest to keep the plants alive?

杰遨-jie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  Brett Summers on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:52 am

Maybe not but bonsai spans all. The monks don't own it What a Face

That siad there would be ways to do Bonsai without killing insects but you may be limited to certian species and possibly other drawbacks! I would not discourage anyone from trying as it is definatly possible. Razz

Brett Summers
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  JimLewis on Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:22 pm

The basis of good pest management is:

1. Prevention. Grow your trees in a way that reduces the likelihood of insects or disease,

That means separating your trees, and not crowding them on your tables to allow air flow between them and over them. That helps keep disease away and to a lesser extent, insects. It means watering as best as possible without wetting the leaves. It means keeping your tables clean and free of fallen leaves, moss, algae, perpetual dampness, spilled soil, etc. It means keeping your trees and pots OFF THE GROUND.

and

2. Control. Use the least toxic (and persistent <--- my addition) method first. If that doesn't do the job, use the next least ., . . and so on.

That means first trying a blast of water into the foliage (very effective for spider mites and somewhat effective for aphids, whitefly and other small sucking insects). Hand removal for larger sucking insects -- scale, etc. If that fails, use of a soap spray is very effective against sucking insects such as aphids, white flies, mealy bugs, etc.

If it turns out that you must use a pesticide, use those with little or no persistence first -- pyrethrins kill on contact but they dissipate rapidly (overnight). Spray these in late evening when possible so as not to kill bees and other beneficial insects. READ THE LABEL of all pesticides and follow directions. More is NOT better.

For chewing insects -- caterpillars, beetles, etc -- Bacillus thuringiensis (BT), a bacterium will take care of the caterpillars and other worm-like critters. Pyrethrins will kill even Japanese beetles. Hand removal is also very effective. For those who may have their trees standing in drip trays, etc., some BT in those will keep mosquitoes down.

For borers, you should try injecting a pyrethrin into the shot holes in the trunk, but a systemic may be necessary.

and

3. Get a GOOD book on garden pests. Know your insects and diseases.


Last edited by JimLewis on Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  MrFancyPlants on Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:38 pm

And for slugs... salt.. or metal barriers on your display table. Most of my critter damage comes from rabbits witch I have mitigated by moving the more delectable plants to the inside and unreachable portions of my display. The only time I have had to use pesticide was for a tropical tree indoors for the winter. Little white mites crawling around the roots. I'll get a nibble here and there, but generally a lack of pesticides allows predatory bugs to keep the parasites at bay.

MrFancyPlants
Member


Back to top Go down

flowers agains pests...

Post  Loke Emil on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:28 pm

Hi there

There's allways the ancient Budhist way to grow life around you. Plant flowers and herbes, which affects the bugs. Attract/Use bug-eating bugs (which doesn't eat wood/plants). Then you don't have to kill the buggers, rather you are the constant gardner garding all beings.

I know that this can be done effectively, because my late grand dad did this with his garden through some 50 years. But you will have to study which plants and flowers to use against the particular pests you get locally - I can't tell.

Regards to you
/Loke Emil

Loke Emil
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  Youngwirth09 on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:25 pm

As Jim mentioned, keeping your trees healthy can keep bugs off of your trees. Trees have natural defense mechanisms, but if they are unhealthy they can succumb to pest infestation.

I had a couple of fukien tea trees that used to get aphids quite frequently a couple years ago. I think it was because the soil was compacted and the trees were not healthy. Anyway, blasting the trees with faucet water usually took them off, but they would come back within a week or two.

This year I haven't had many bugs at all. Now I use mostly inorganic soil, which prevent fungus gnats, and keeps my trees healthy with less effort. The only time I had bugs was when I left vacations and the plants suffered from under watering while I was away. Only my three serissas had bugs and I blasted them with water and "quarantined" them for a couple weeks and they were fine. Also, I sometimes sprayed my trees with diatomaceous earth water (water used after rinsing diatomaceous earth), which I think works well at preventing bugs after blasting them off. I don't think the diatomaceous earth water actually kills bugs if you use it after you blast the trees off, but if you use it while the bugs are still on it might kill them. So, if you don't want to kill bugs, thats probably the best option (to spray the DE water or soap water AFTER the trees are blasted off)

Also, Lady bugs and praying mantids will eat aphids and other small insects. I think you can buy eggs online

Youngwirth09
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  JimLewis on Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:10 pm

Also, Lady bugs and praying mantids will eat aphids and other small insects. I think you can buy eggs online

You read a lot about this. Perhaps it can work for farmers who have acres and acres of the same crop (corn, wheat, apples, peaches, etc.), but for home gardeners -- and especially bonsai gardeners -- it is a waste of money. These beneficial insects only stick around when there is a lot of something to eat; once their food is gone, they're off to look for more fruitful pastures. And, if you have enough insects on your trees or gardens to keep them around, you are in serious trouble and need to implement one or all of the steps I outlined up above.

As for using plants that repel insects, it certainly won't hurt to have marigolds, dill, rosemary and other such plants growing around your trees, but the consensus these days seems to be that the effects are slight at best.

I don't like poisons, either, but there are times when they are absolutely necessary.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  Youngwirth09 on Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:53 pm

Jim,

I agree with you that it would be hard to contain predatory insects. However, I think some people keep mantids as pets. So, if one kept them as pets, it would be possible to quarantine an infested tree in an aquarium and move the mantids in with the tree until the problem is resolved. I considered the option for myself for awhile, but I don't get insects very often and would rather not have to purchase bugs to feed the mantids when there is not an infestation. I do think it is an option though for someone that does not want to kill insects directly, but would rather feed a pet mantid!

Jon

Youngwirth09
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  JimLewis on Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:40 pm

Well, if you keep Millie the Mantis in your house, have at it.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  carlos on Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:20 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Also, Lady bugs and praying mantids will eat aphids and other small insects. I think you can buy eggs online

You read a lot about this. Perhaps it can work for farmers who have acres and acres of the same crop (corn, wheat, apples, peaches, etc.), but for home gardeners -- and especially bonsai gardeners -- it is a waste of money. These beneficial insects only stick around when there is a lot of something to eat; once their food is gone, they're off to look for more fruitful pastures. And, if you have enough insects on your trees or gardens to keep them around, you are in serious trouble and need to implement one or all of the steps I outlined up above.

As for using plants that repel insects, it certainly won't hurt to have marigolds, dill, rosemary and other such plants growing around your trees, but the consensus these days seems to be that the effects are slight at best.

Man, you have alligators in your pocket! Donyou ever spend money?

I don't like poisons, either, but there are times when they are absolutely necessary.

carlos
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  JimLewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:14 pm

Man, you have alligators in your pocket! Don you ever spend money?

Not sure what you mean with the alligators comment, but when I DO spend money, I prefer to spend it on positive stuff.

I don't like poisons, either, but there are times when they are absolutely necessary.

And there's yet another reason I left Florida (one of many). Bugs outnumber people two or three BILLION to one in Florida. So considering where you live, you are right.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:35 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Man, you have alligators in your pocket! Don you ever spend money?

Not sure what you mean with the alligators comment, but when I DO spend money, I prefer to spend it on positive stuff.

I don't like poisons, either, but there are times when they are absolutely necessary.

And there's yet another reason I left Florida (one of many). Bugs outnumber people two or three BILLION to one in Florida. So considering where you live, you are right.

Jim, that's hilarious. I saw bigger bugs down in FL than I ever have in any National Geographic video. June bugs hurt like a bastard when you're riding your motorcycle at 80 MPH.
Have a great weekend!!!
Sam

Sam Ogranaja
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  carlos on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:55 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Man, you have alligators in your pocket! Don you ever spend money?

Not sure what you mean with the alligators comment, but when I DO spend money, I prefer to spend it on positive stuff.

I don't like poisons, either, but there are times when they are absolutely necessary.

And there's yet another reason I left Florida (one of many). Bugs outnumber people two or three BILLION to one in Florida. So considering where you live, you are right.

Well, every instance that someone mentions buying, using or event trying a new product you say it is a waste of money. That is why i ask if you have alligators, scorpions or any other dangerous creatures in you pockets.....

carlos
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  JimLewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:32 pm

I guess I'm still being dense, but I dunno what alligators in my pockets have to do with my having done some simple research on the products in question -- research that others could have done just as well.

But nevermnind . . . it doesn't matter.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  fiona on Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:18 pm

I think Carlos means that the presence of dangerous critters such as alligators in your pockets is what is so obviously preventing you from reaching into them in search of your wallet. It is similar to an accusation used over here where we say that someone has deep pockets and short arms. In other words, sah, you are a skinflint, a meanie, a miser, a niggard, a scrooge, a pinch-penny and a tightwad.

Ah well - I guess it makes a change from curmudgeon. Wink

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  fiona on Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:39 pm

In fact I'd tend to agree with Jim's point which was that there could only be short-term gain from using biological pest controls such as beneficial insects as once their "food" has been removed they will either move on or will die. That makes whether one wants to spend money on purchasing the biological control agents very much a matter of choice. I can't speak for anywhere else but where I live they remain fairly pricey. I have not tried them in relation to my bonsai but I have used them in my glasshouse with little discernible effect.

My own preference is for a more "integrated pest management programme" for the whole garden which includes such simple steps as trying to remove as much leaf debris as possible to prevent disease and encouraging wildlife. Moan about the pesky critters as much as we may, sometimes a bird pecking at your moss is good because it can alert one to the fact that something nasty lurks beneath. My trees are, I should say, remarkable bug-free.

Whatever we do, it requires a great amount of human activity. It would be great to think I could release a few organisms then sit back with a cup of tea all summer while they munched their way through the baddies. Afraid nothing beats a good bit of vigilance for me.



And it gives me something to do with the dirty water after George has finished doing the dishes.

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  JimLewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:30 pm

I think Carlos means that the presence of dangerous critters such as alligators in your pockets is what is so obviously preventing you from reaching into them in search of your wallet. It is similar to an accusation used over here where we say that someone has deep pockets and short arms. In other words, sah, you are a skinflint, a meanie, a miser, a niggard, a scrooge, a pinch-penny and a tightwad.

Oh.


Duh!


And I am -- all of those . . . but you should get to know my son! He still has his first nickel's allowance -- and he just turned 50.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: killing pest and insects

Post  Sponsored content Today at 6:16 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum