"Japanese trees"

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Guest on Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:33 pm

Interesting thread. Thanks. If we could just avoid the competitions I would be happy. It is a worldwide habit (Japan, Europe, anywhere) to turn everything into a competition, but rarely it has any other point than pleasing the winners?
Friendly sharing the knowledge and displaying, showing the art for each other, should be the main goal. But I am sure it will not be the leading opinion - people like to be mentioned, prized and honoured.

So should I avoid showing my work at exhibitions with prizes as I have taken part in until now? Shall I display at events were you can choose not to be part of the contest, but still display alongside with the competition displays without taking part in the competition? Or shall I only take part in the very few occasions were non-competitions displays are the rule to avoid what I dislike?
I really do not know, but honestly I am not too happy displaying at some event because too much envy and negative criticism is ruling. It is far more pleasing just to enjoy beautiful bonsai and displays, without thinking about who is chosen to be the best.

Regards
Morten

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Japanese trees

Post  alex e on Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:37 pm

morten albek wrote:Interesting thread. Thanks. If we could just avoid the competitions I would be happy. It is a worldwide habit (Japan, Europe, anywhere) to turn everything into a competition, but rarely it has any other point than pleasing the winners?
Friendly sharing the knowledge and displaying, showing the art for each other, should be the main goal. But I am sure it will not be the leading opinion - people like to be mentioned, prized and honoured.

So should I avoid showing my work at exhibitions with prizes as I have taken part in until now? Shall I display at events were you can choose not to be part of the contest, but still display alongside with the competition displays without taking part in the competition? Or shall I only take part in the very few occasions were non-competitions displays are the rule to avoid what I dislike?
I really do not know, but honestly I am not too happy displaying at some event because too much envy and negative criticism is ruling. It is far more pleasing just to enjoy beautiful bonsai and displays, without thinking about who is chosen to be the best.

Regards
Morten
BRAVO!!!!!!!! Morten ThumbsUp
Alex e Bagpiper

alex e
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  fiona on Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:51 pm

It's an interesting question Morten and I don't profess to have the answer. But speaking from the other side of the fence as a member of the viewing public, it would be disappointing if I thought I couldn't see your trees at an exhibition even if I did understand your reasons.

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Bob Pressler on Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:04 pm

It'll never happen but wouldn't it be nice to have exhibitions only rather than competitions. Even nicer if the trees were just displayed with no indication of the owner/designer.
It seems to be an unfortunate fact that politics and ego always come into play whenever 3 or more people get together for anything.

Bob Pressler
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:13 pm

Morten,

if we follow the Japanese practice of prepping a tree for 2 to 3 years for an exhibition. How many exhibitions would one be taking part in - 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or.... a year.
After 3 it starts to feel like a performing monkey and with all the travelling expenses, one would want something for all that time spent on the pre, during and post exhibition.

Additionally, if you have to pay to enter or pay to be a member, a prize would have to be offered.

AND you have to also look at all those competition exhibitions where one pays to enter in some form and the payment ends up as either part or all of the prize.
The very popular ---- make the contestants pay for their own prizes [ booby prizes for all .] highly visible on the Internet in many, " Art Competitions."

I don't know about you, but for all that time, I can't live on prestige and would need $$$$$$$
A self defeating practice.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Randy_Davis on Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:56 pm

The subject of this thread has come and gone many times not only on this forum, but in most likely every bonsai club in the world and always comes up empty handed. For me personally, I see no problem with “Japanese trees” or any tree for that matter, it always comes down to who does the judging and what’s the criteria. Here in the US a lot of shows now have a “peoples choice award” (the viewing public) which for me, is the most prestigious. Why the most prestigious?, because it’s given by those who generally have no knowledge about the subject matter and base their decision on what Tim so rightfully pointed out “an evoked emotion” which to me is the essence of this wonderful hobby. Competition is just part of human nature and is more prevalent in some than others and that’s just the way it is, sad to say. I have learned over the years to take it with a grain of salt and rather than dwell on it, point my direction to other more subtle and interesting points of the art form like use of new material, new design forms, expressions of natural environmental conditions, difficulty of the plant material and any other number of considerations. On the point about Natural vs. Un-Natural, in my mind they are two different styles, with different underpinnings on their effectiveness of execution. The natural style in my opinion is under rated in its difficulty to achieve. There are some tree forms while looser in structure are very difficult to replicate effectively in miniature yet still evoke that fire in the belly emotion to the horticulturally inclined viewer. All too often we over look the things that can expand the bonsai universe because they are difficult to enumerate. However, just because they are difficult doesn’t mean that we should overlook them. We should be encouraging them, expanding on them and developing a broader sense of visual art and horticultural expertise with new and untried material. Just my 2 cents and now I’ll put on my helmet like so many others.

Randy_Davis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Guest on Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:02 pm

I think a simple rule will be fair to all concern

Imported trees fitted against imported trees or be displayed along local trees just for the sake of sharing the beauty of the tree and will not be entered to compete. this, I think will level the playing field and will encourage more local artist to match the imported trees and as for the imported exhibitor/s (patron of the arts) it will encourage them too, to share more beautiful imported trees because they will have a separate competition against other patrons of the art.

regards,
jun

Smile

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Guest on Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:03 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Morten,

if we follow the Japanese practice of prepping a tree for 2 to 3 years for an exhibition. How many exhibitions would one be taking part in - 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or.... a year.
After 3 it starts to feel like a performing monkey and with all the travelling expenses, one would want something for all that time spent on the pre, during and post exhibition.

Additionally, if you have to pay to enter or pay to be a member, a prize would have to be offered.

AND you have to also look at all those competition exhibitions where one pays to enter in some form and the payment ends up as either part or all of the prize.
The very popular ---- make the contestants pay for their own prizes [ booby prizes for all .] highly visible on the Internet in many, " Art Competitions."

I don't know about you, but for all that time, I can't live on prestige and would need $$$$$$$
A self defeating practice.
Khaimraj

I do pay to be member of one association and there are no prices. Exhibitions are every second year, no names on the displays and no prizes. Very Happy
I do not need prestige. Just participating, share and joy.

Regards
Morten

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Bob Pressler on Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:03 pm

I do pay to be member of one association and there are no prices. Exhibitions are every second year, no names on the displays and no prizes. Very Happy
I do not need prestige. Just participating, share and joy.

Regards
Morten[/quote]


Thats what I'd like to see all exhibitions like.


Bob Pressler
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  landerloos on Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:30 pm

jun wrote: I think a simple rule will be fair to all concern

Imported trees fitted against imported trees or be displayed along local trees just for the sake of sharing the beauty of the tree and will not be entered to compete. this, I think will level the playing field and will encourage more local artist to match the imported trees and as for the imported exhibitor/s (patron of the arts) it will encourage them too, to share more beautiful imported trees because they will have a separate competition against other patrons of the art.

regards,
jun

Smile

Jun here I challenge you to find a satsuki grown from scratch in europe and it hase to be a top tree, so if I buy a beautifull satsuki I have to be in a other competition, WHY?
Lets say for the discusions sake that I overhaul the tree completly, is it still a Japanese tree?
I have friends that have nice imported stock, but they did set there own mark on it, If you see those trees from the time from import and the stages they went trough, its not the same tree.
Something more for the discusions sake, I buy a tree from a european artist (high level) where is that tree to be exhibitet?
Exactly therefor I think this is a useless discusion, I ve I hade a lott of money I would buy some very good japanese trees aswell, but I would also keep training my own trees.

Peter

landerloos
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  craigw on Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:52 pm

The 2 clubs that I am associated with here in Melbourne Australia both hold non-competitive exhibitions which is exactly how I think they should be. Exhibitions without competition mean that novice growers can show their trees without the pressure of judgement and ensures the event is friendly and relaxed.
With regards to the importation of Japanese trees I think you guys are lucky to have them around as they have the potential to dramatically improve the quality of locally grown trees, I am in the fortunate position to own 2 Japanese trees which I inherited. These trees have been a great learning tool for me as I can see first hand how they have been grown and developed. Imported trees are very rare here in Australia.
Bonsai ownership is a pretty fluid thing and trees tend to move around from owner to owner during the course of their lives, they can be dramatically restyled or carefully maintained either way eventually a tree will become the work of its current owner, I tend to believe the origin of a tree is kind of irrelevant so long as it is in good condition, well maintained and its past is acknowledged.
Craig

craigw
Member


Back to top Go down

japanese trees

Post  Bob Bailey on Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:53 pm


Am I the only one who enjoys competitions? I enter one or two a year and really enjoy them. The friendly rivalry between friends I find really enjoyable. One such show is held every May by the Wessex Bonsai Society,a good show with the added element of competition,no prize money just a rosette or a small trophy.
Sometimes you win sometimes you lose and when you lose it makes you more determined to improve your trees for the next one. My own Society at Swindon in their annual show award 8 trophies for different catergories,they are not prizes,but recognition of the skill and hard work the artists have put into their trees Is it wrong to recognise the artists in this way?
Bob

Bob Bailey
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  fiona on Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:18 pm

I don't have any problem with the scenarios you outline, Bob. It's not "competition" as such as I see it and as you say it is friendly and inspirational. And, it is also a way of judging your own trees against the current standards. If you dont compare, you can't know the best way forward for your trees. That's the reason I enter shows - I know I won't "win" but I will see how my trees compare against other people's. I came away from the weekend at Willowbog with a game plan for my white pine. It is a good tree but seeing it against other good (and better) trees helped me see how it could be even better. That's a win in itself.

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  ogie on Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:42 pm

Jun here I challenge you to find a satsuki grown from scratch in europe and it hase to be a top tree, so if I buy a beautifull satsuki I have to be in a other competition, WHY?
Lets say for the discusions sake that I overhaul the tree completly, is it still a Japanese tree?
I have friends that have nice imported stock, but they did set there own mark on it, If you see those trees from the time from import and the stages they went trough, its not the same tree.
Something more for the discusions sake, I buy a tree from a european artist (high level) where is that tree to be exhibitet?
Exactly therefor I think this is a useless discusion, I ve I hade a lott of money I would buy some very good japanese trees aswell, but I would also keep training my own trees.

Peter[/quote

I agree totally with Peter there....bottom line once you bought it and transformation transpire,it has your mark in it,Thats YOU already

Regards...Alex

ogie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Guest on Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:11 am

Agree with Peter. A mixture of trees wherever they may be found is welcome. I see no problem in that at all. With time the personal touch of the owner (if he/she does the work themselves) will be more or less visible hopefully.
I receive a raw stock/semi trained Satsuki Azalea imported from Japan soon, and that is a specimen I cant find as European native. I see no problem in this at all. Our gardens are full of trees that originally newer have belonged to this part of the world. It just opens up new possibilities and joy I find, and goes fine with my more native more home made ones.

Bob. Secondly, I would like the environment regarding exhibitions with competitions having a friendly atmosphere, but too often I have experienced the opposite here from a few people. Even a remark was made when i won a prize, that the trees where poor and it was unfair that i won the prize because the person who not won had bought an expensive table! That takes the air out of the friendly competition, and is why I am not hot on it any more.

Regards
Morten


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Dave Martin on Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:22 am

Bob,
Don't worry you are not the only one to enjoy competition, I have always enjoyed crossing swords in the mame section at Wessex with you!

Ponder on this if you will.

If necessity is the mother of invention, is competition the father of improvement and improvisation?

Dave Martin
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Justin Hervey on Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:00 am

My apologies if I've missed something here but for me this is an 'ease of access to good material' issue, if Japan was a close neighbour would these concerns be legitimate?
If the 'rule' is universally applicable, as it should be, then where are Japanese artists to get their stock?

I believe the answer to be a greater detailing of the tree's history when on show, the viewer can then decide how much they need to know.

Justin Hervey
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Guest on Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:27 am

Hello Justin. There is no problem with getting good quality Japanese material across Europe. Some love Japanese material to work with and some love native material. Both look and work well together in competition.

If necessity is the mother of invention, is competition the father of improvement and improvisation? Not as elloquantly as you Dave but I was going to say something along these lines. Competition and exhibition has certainly raised my game in the last 4 years. Without a shadow of doubt.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: "Japanese trees"

Post  Sponsored content Today at 9:39 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum