my juniper any suggestions??

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my juniper any suggestions??

Post  eaton2008 on Sun May 03, 2009 10:34 am



does anyone have any ideas for a future design of my juniper????i need inspiration!

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Rick Moquin on Sun May 03, 2009 12:04 pm

I like the movement of this tree.

If it were mine I would remove the bottom two branches.

The plane of the top branches is uneven, the branches should be coming of the trunk at the same angle.

Bring the foliage of the first right branch forward some (large branch)

Lower the apex a little

Fine pruning and wiring.

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  JimLewis on Sun May 03, 2009 12:25 pm

I certainly wouldn't do much to it. If you make the branches' bends too uniform, you will do away with the very naturalness than makes it attractive.

You have a swelling on the trunk just below the apex that (maybe) some carving or a bent-down branch might camouflage.

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  rickyricardo on Sun May 03, 2009 1:56 pm

Rick Moquin wrote:I like the movement of this tree.

If it were mine I would remove the bottom two branches.

The plane of the top branches is uneven, the branches should be coming of the trunk at the same angle.

Bring the foliage of the first right branch forward some (large branch)

Lower the apex a little

Fine pruning and wiring.
kind of like this?

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Tony on Sun May 03, 2009 6:51 pm

I would not cut off the bottom branch/es as this makes the tree individual, styled well the bottom branch addds character, thining out the top of the tree would help, but as Jim says "I certainly wouldn't do much to it."

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‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  mike page on Sun May 03, 2009 11:06 pm



This virtual is my vision for your tree. I am partial to bunjin as you can see.

Mike

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Rick Moquin on Sun May 03, 2009 11:33 pm

Tony wrote:I would not cut off the bottom branch/es as this makes the tree individual, styled well the bottom branch addds character, thining out the top of the tree would help, but as Jim says "I certainly wouldn't do much to it."
Well my British friend, you will need to explain to this Canuck how them bottom branches enhance the tree. I know Tony we do not want to produce cookie cutters, but if and when a tree has been trained towards a certain end, isn't it feasible. PLease en;ighten me as I can't see the tree with those branches.

On second look I notice alot of algea on the trunk. I would definitely taker a soft brush and clean up both the live and dead wood, and further enhance the dead with a coat of LS. A brown pot would further enhance the overall balance. I would accept this tree on my bench any day

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Tony on Mon May 04, 2009 10:21 am

Rick Moquin wrote:
Well my British friend, you will need to explain to this Canuck how them bottom branches enhance the tree. I know Tony we do not want to produce cookie cutters, but if and when a tree has been trained towards a certain end, isn't it feasible. PLease en;ighten me as I can't see the tree with those branches.

Hi Rick, I understand that my comment does not conform to the 'norm' of what we (the west) believe to be 'classic' bonsai styling, and you have flagged up 'cookie cutter' something that happens all to often.

Take a look at this Juniper styled by my little Italian friend Marco (Marcos website), during much discussion the trend was to remove the bottom branch, instead the tree is individual.

Eatons tree only needs to be styled a bit more as it has started to look like a trimmed poodle.


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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Rudi.J on Mon May 04, 2009 11:47 am

I agree with Tony, and this is just my opinion.
What do you think??

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Rick Moquin on Mon May 04, 2009 12:02 pm

UNCLE!

Tony you sneaky devil I knew you had something hidden in the closet. I endorse your find. That being said, notice there is only a left bottom branch on Marco's tree which balances the setting. Going back to the original where he has both I found something disturbing (to me anyway) about the bottom branches. After another view, I would still remove the lower right which although mimics Marco's tree works for me.

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Tony on Mon May 04, 2009 3:28 pm

Rudi.J wrote:I agree with Tony, and this is just my opinion.
What do you think??

Hi Rudi, nice solution, this does give an 'extreme' solution, but an good alternative, I guess it all depends on what Eaton would like to do... he did ask for suggestions afterall.

Rick

OK I may be a sneaky devil... but when styling trees I look into the hard drive of my memory in my head and remember the images from Exhibition ...books.. forums etc. and the more you see the better your chances of arriving at a satisfactory solution to a 'problem' tree.
BTW glad you liked the Big Escallonia... will be real nice in a couple of years.

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  fiona on Mon May 04, 2009 4:21 pm

Rick Moquin wrote: I know Tony we do not want to produce cookie cutters

Okay. I've been looking at this for over an hour now and, as the canuck equivalents up here in the northern parts of the British Isles would say, "It's daein' ma heid in!" So please could someone enlighten me as to what "cookie cutters" are as I don't like to let a foodstuff-related analogy to go past without understanding (or possibly even eating) it.

Slainte

Fiona

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  mike page on Mon May 04, 2009 5:12 pm

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=cookie+cutter&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=

Hi Fiona
The link is to cookie cutters. If you take one shaped like a tree and use it to make cookies, each cookie will look like the one before. "Cookie cutter" bonsai is a perjorative term for bonsai that have no originality, and look like cookie cutter trees.
Of course, if you do leave the beaten path and do original work, the cookie lovers will criticize you.

Regards

Mike

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  fiona on Mon May 04, 2009 6:13 pm

Thanks Mike. I thoght it would be something like that. Ironically, over here in the UK, manufacturers are obliged to discard all their mis-shapen and mis-sized biscuits (cookies) and chocolates before packaging. A real shame, except that now certain firms buy them all and sell them off cheaply as mis-shapes. They taste every bit as good, and are all wonderfully individual (and often wacky) in shape and size. There's definitely an analogy here. For my next display I'm going to feature a twisted tree with a mis-shapen Tunnock's Carammel Log instead of an accent plant.

Then I'll take my tongue out of my cheek long enough to eat it.


BTW here's a link to Scotland's greatest export and the probably (apologies to Carlsberg) the world's best biscuit.
http://www.tunnock.co.uk/teacake.html

fiona
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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  eaton2008 on Mon May 04, 2009 7:01 pm

just wanted to say thankyou very much for all your ideas sofar!!i am glad i posted this picture as i have been viewing other peoples work on this site for a while!! i wish i could use photoshop?!i love the sketch by Rudi.J, iam very grateful for everyones time!!this tree was first style by Marco 4-5 years ago, then restyled 1 year later by my friend Will!! if i can find pictures i will put some on if anybody is interested?thanks again for the interesting posts!

simon

eaton2008
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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Lee Kennedy on Mon May 04, 2009 7:09 pm

mike page wrote:http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=cookie+cutter&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=


Of course, if you do leave the beaten path and do original work, the cookie lovers will criticize you.

Regards

Mike
Seriously funny Mike,dammed if you do dammed if you dont,love it bounce

Lee Kennedy
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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Lee Kennedy on Mon May 04, 2009 7:18 pm

Simon,the future now lies in refinement,the basic's are there,but instead of the 5 current blobs of foliage you can get10-15 refined layers of foliage,the trunk is light and elegant,the foliage must reflect this,a bit more depth by better use of the back branches is a must,it has good potential

Lee Kennedy
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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Tony on Mon May 04, 2009 7:30 pm

eaton2008 wrote:this tree was first style by Marco 4-5 years ago

Rick... I rest my case Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

_________________
Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Rick Moquin on Mon May 04, 2009 7:45 pm

Tony wrote:
eaton2008 wrote:this tree was first style by Marco 4-5 years ago

Rick... I rest my case Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz
... then can it be classified as "cookie cutter". The very fine line we walk... Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Tony on Mon May 04, 2009 7:52 pm

Rick Moquin wrote:
Tony wrote:
eaton2008 wrote:this tree was first style by Marco 4-5 years ago

Rick... I rest my case Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz
... then can it be classified as "cookie cutter". The very fine line we walk... Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

Me and my mouth pale

_________________
Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Lee Kennedy on Mon May 04, 2009 7:53 pm

cookies mmmmmmmmmm by the way marco did "rip off/copy/be inspired by" a quite famous japanese white pine

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  eaton2008 on Mon May 04, 2009 9:54 pm

march05 a couple of months after marco styled it at workshop


march06 after changing justthe angle of the trunk


june07 after thinning out and re positioning branches

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Re: my juniper any suggestions??

Post  Kev Bailey on Mon May 04, 2009 9:57 pm

The pictures showing history of a tree are always welcome. Especially when someone like Marco Invernizzi has had a hand in its development!

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