Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

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Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:51 pm

JimLewis wrote:Thanks, all. I'll have to make do with that tree on the stand for a while. Here's what we woke too this monring:


Absolutely lovely photo, but this too revives my wintery paranoia.

As discussed in another thread, all of my temperate bonsai are now in an enclosed carport. We haven't gotten much snow here in Central Illinois over the past several years. So I'm always overly cautious about leaving my evergreen trees and my elms outside (instead of putting them into a cold frame environment.

Am I better off taking them out and leaving them on a shelf out of the direct winter wind? Or should I keep doin, what I've been doin? Obviously, they would be much prettier out covered in snow, like Jim's.

(FYI: It was 19*F this morning, already it is over 30 and should settle in today around 38. The weather man (who traditionally is a habitual liar) says the temps will continue to rise over tonight and into tomorrow. Temps heading for the next few days of 48 to 52.) If I put my hardier trees outside tonight, I can cover them with snow (via shovel) and let Mother Nature water them.

Happy New Year!

Jay

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  JimLewis on Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:49 pm

Well, if that has worked for you in the past, stick with it.

Not all my trees are out there by any means. Just needled evergreens. Two other tables that you can't see are closer to the house and under a second floor deck. They got no snow. Those include Satsukis, hornbeam, willow, and a bunch of plants that probably will never amount to bonsai. Then, off to the right is a small screened room which I have fixed so the incessant wind if pretty much blocked and into which my more fussy plants -- crape myrtle, young plants, cuttings, etc. are kept.

My snow is melted off this table now. temps were 15 night before last and 19 last night 25 tonight and in the 30s for the next week (HA!). Daytimes have been in the mid 40s and 50s. Kinda like a yo-yo.

Your biggest problem in the winter is NOT consistent cold -- it is up and down cold, and drying winds.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:36 pm

Thanks JIm!

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Neil Jaeger on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:21 pm

I wonder why after all the bonsai that has been practiced that there is no charts for what tempeture destroys the tissue of the more used trees? Even if they used a "controlled cold" like no wind and such. For me this is THE biggest problem, where to put them.

Neil

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  JimLewis on Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:13 am

Too many variables.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiast

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:08 pm

Neil Jaeger wrote:I wonder why after all the bonsai that has been practiced that there is no chart for what temperature destroys the tissue of the more used trees?
Neil
Many new growers wonder about wind chill. Remember wind chill applies only to naked warm blooded animals and has nothing to do with plants. Wind has a drying effect on plants, but has nothing to do with temperature.
Somewhere in the literature you will find the hardiness of every common tree. If it is listed for Zone 9, it will stand temperatures down to 20 F in the ground. There is a rule of thumb that if the plant is in a container, add two zones. In other words, if you have a subtropical species listed for Zone 9 and you are growing it as a bonsai, try to keep it frost free over the winter (Zone 11).
As Jim says, there are many variables, humidity, length of winter, age & size of the tree, etc. Most temperate bonsai species, which come from Zones 4 to 7, can be wintered over in the middle northern states in a cold-frame, unheated garage, or similar location.
Iris

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Neil Jaeger on Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:15 pm

Thank you again Iris for alittle more of your knowledge. I was wondering about these stories of parts of trees dying off after winter. I know this may sound pretty vague and may be pest or diesese, but i was told it was from the cold wind. Is that branch just drying out? Or is this to little information about the affected tree?

Neil

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:48 pm

Neil Jaeger wrote: I was wondering about these stories of parts of trees dying off after winter.
Neil
I have lost parts of trees in the sunporch too, so it isn't necessarily wind. Trees in a precarious condition may lose the leader over the winter. This is because the tree is at the limit of its hardiness, or there is a root problem, or some unknown factor. I think in a protected location, it may be more due to overwatering in the fall rather than drying out. If you have a tree you are doubtful about, wrap the leader in something to give it a little extra protection. If you look at trees outdoors, they often lose a top branch or two over the winter, but on a full size tree, it isn't noticeable.
Iris

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Neil Jaeger on Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:47 pm

Again thank you so very much for letting me pick your brain. I really apprechiate your paitence with some of the questions i ask.

Neil

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  NeilDellinger on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:44 am

Jay,
Rules of thumb:
1) One of the biggest mistakes you could make is continually moving trees and changing their winter environment based upon fear. Fear based movement of trees in winter is worse than the temps you're afraid of.

2)) Try to keep a stable temp. The more stable the temps the better off you'll be. Don't overdo watching the thermometer. Its like the stock market Smile

3)) Keep your trees healthy through the growing season (fed, watered and not stressed). Then in winter keep them cold & dormant and most of all out of the drying winds.

My garage gets down to 26F sometimes, on warm days when its above 35f, I may open the door for some air circulation. But the trees never move from their spots. If they're dry I water with snow if available, water if its warm enough. Most of the time its between 30f and 34f. All my trees are there (Quince, tridents, scots pine, JBP's, Itoigawa, elms etc...). I know of a guy who leaves his junipers out all year, his hoop house gets no heat until its 20F.... and he's 45 minutes north of me.

Get some sleep and leave your trees alone Shocked

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:26 pm

Thanks Neil.

For the record, I have taken my trees out of the wind, since I started owning them. At first, I built an enclosure next to my foundation with bales of straw and then covered them completely, only exposing them occasionally during warm periods for watering.

From there I moved them to a cold frame, then a larger cold frame. At present they are in a temporary shed that isn't sealed very well, just out of the wind.

I don't tend to move them, frequently or otherwise...

I just tend to panic while leaving them where they sit!

Jay

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Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiast

Post  bonsaisr on Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:18 pm

Jay Gaydosh wrote: At present they are in a temporary shed that isn't sealed very well, just out of the wind.
Jay
What you need is a maximum-minimum thermometer. I try to keep my trees above 25 F (-4 C).
Iris

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:56 pm

bonsaisr wrote:
Jay Gaydosh wrote: At present they are in a temporary shed that isn't sealed very well, just out of the wind.
Jay
What you need is a maximum-minimum thermometer. I try to keep my trees above 25 F (-4 C).
Iris

Thanks, Iris, I've got one, but I didn't get the new building finished before it turned cold so trying to heat this drafty shed would be way to costly.

At last check, on Monday, everything appeared to be doing nicely. The only trees I have that are suffering are three of my Fukien Tea and they are in my basement, watered, gently warmed and under daylight spectrum lighting.

Sometimes nothing seems to make sense!

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Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiast

Post  bonsaisr on Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:16 pm

Jay Gaydosh wrote:
Sometimes nothing seems to make sense!
Oh, you've noticed. Shocked
Wait until you are 81. Then you will be sure that nothing makes sense. No
Iris

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  fiona on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:17 pm

bonsaisr wrote: Wait until you are 81. Then you will be sure that nothing makes sense. No
Iris
Oh dear! I seem to have started 30 years early!

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  bonsaistud on Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:22 am

Fiona my friend...you aren't even close...it gets worse. Listen to Iris...and me...the oldest man in the world.

Pat...riding off wildly, on his white horse, in all directions...

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:07 am

The wonderful thing about senility...
You can't remember why you didn't want it in the first place!

That and you can hide your own Easter eggs!

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Re: Paranoid Bonsai Enthusiat

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