Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

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Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:22 am

Hi. I saw a JBP on eBay a few weeks ago and it was pretty cheap, so I bought it. When I received it I was very happy about the size. It is about a foot tall and has a diameter of nearly an inch and a half. When I took it out of the box I noticed it was slightly yellow colored, but I decided it was from a lack of sun from being in the box and put it out of my mind. It is now two weeks later, and the needles are worse. The majority of the tree is a dull yellow-green and some places are turning brown. The areas where the needles come out of is the correct dark green, but nothing else on the tree is.

This is the tree as a whole so you can see the main color of it.

Close-up.

More brown needles.
(sorry for the pictures; my tablet's camera is terrible and it wouldn't transfer pictures from my phone)

Dalton Duffett
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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Jason Eider on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:06 am

Are you keeping the tree outdoors? It should be outside.

Jason

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:23 am

No. This tree came from Mississippi so I figured it would be best under my grow light with my other trees because going from Mississippi weather to Missouri weather would be too much of a shock. Just for reference, Tuesday the night temperature was -20F and the day temp was -5F. Would the pine be okay outside in this weather?

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  giga on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:36 am

JBP are not tropical and need to be kept outside-your basically killing it-put it in a shed outside and it will be fine till weather warms up. Water it ever few weeks

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:50 am

Okay, thank you. I didn't know because my Hinoki Cypress loves being under the grow light, and I spray them every few hours to keep up the humidity. I'll put it in my garage and see what happens  thumbs up 

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  M. Frary on Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:26 am

Hey Dalton. How long have the hinoki cypress? The reason being they also need a dormant period also. You should probably start thinking about a winter storage plan for your trees next winter. The hinoki should be fine this year since it's already growing but they need to rest . If not it will just get weak and die. I live in  Michigan and we also get some low temps at times. I keep the trees that I own that are not zone correct( My zone is 4) hinoki cypress, Chinese elm, kings ville boxwood a may hawthorn all of which are zone 5 and greater go down in a room in my basement that gets down to 25 to 30 degrees. The trees freeze solid but don't get hit with wind chill. They wake up in spring happy as clams. The best way to go is grow trees that can live in your area or zone. That way you just can keep them outside all winter.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:46 am

M. Frary wrote:I live in  Michigan and we also get some low temps at times. I keep the trees that I own that are not zone correct( My zone is 4) hinoki cypress, Chinese elm, kings ville boxwood a may hawthorn all of which are zone 5 and greater go down in a room in my basement that gets down to 25 to 30 degrees.
I was under the impression that the trees still need some sun during winter. Am I wrong, or do you only do this during the dead of winter?

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  M. Frary on Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:58 am

Once they enter dormancy they no longer need light because they're sleeping. I was just down there to check on things today and everyone is fine. I would post some pictures of my trees here but can't seem to figure out how. I don't own a computer just my phone. That way I could show you what kind of set up I have down there. If there was sunlight getting in there the temps would probably fluctuate and then the trees may break dormancy too early.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:26 am

Okay, thank you for the input. I'll put my Japanese Black Pine in my garage and leave the rest where they are because they're happy. Next winter I'm going to put all of them there.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:25 am

Dalton,

from time to time you will see me talking about my J.B.pines [ from seed ], I live in the tropics, please ignore me.
Don't follow what I do, as you will kill your J.B.pine.
My pines, are adapted to the tropics and your pine is adapted to the sub/tropics or warm temperate zone.
I am leaving this response, because you are new to bonsai.
Best of growing.
Khaimraj

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Twisted Trees on Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:47 am

A few things on JBP in the cold north. I'm raising about 120 of them in zone 5. Zone 5 will kill them...been there done that...so watch your garage temps. Anything below zero is getting too cold in general and for a tree from Mississippi I'd guess below 15 or so might be getting too cold. That said, that tree needs some needle plucking. Are you familiar with how to do this?

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  fiona on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:15 am

M. Frary wrote:I would post some pictures of my trees here but can't seem to figure out how. I don't own a computer just my phone.
Unfortunately the forumotion system doesn't allow uploading pics from a phone at this point in time. Do you have a friend with a computer? If so, maybe you could ask them nicely if you could use that to post to here. Unless you have a really ancient phone, you should be able to attach your phone to the computer through a USB.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Twisted Trees on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:07 pm

fiona wrote:
M. Frary wrote:I would post some pictures of my trees here but can't seem to figure out how. I don't own a computer just my phone.
  Unfortunately the forumotion system doesn't allow uploading pics from a phone at this point in time.  Do you have a friend with a computer?  If so, maybe you could ask them nicely if you could use that to post to here. Unless you have a really ancient phone, you should be able to attach your phone to the computer through a USB.  
Public Libraries usually have free computer and internet access as well.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Twisted Trees on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:09 pm

Also, how compacted is that soil? Does water soak in immediately or run off?

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  M. Frary on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:50 pm

Twisted Trees wrote:
fiona wrote:
M. Frary wrote:I would post some pictures of my trees here but can't seem to figure out how. I don't own a computer just my phone.
  Unfortunately the forumotion system doesn't allow uploading pics from a phone at this point in time.  Do you have a friend with a computer?  If so, maybe you could ask them nicely if you could use that to post to here. Unless you have a really ancient phone, you should be able to attach your phone to the computer through a USB.  


Public Libraries usually have free computer and internet access as well.

  Yeah. The only problem is there is no public library here. Closest is an hours drive away. Heck the first time I got a chance to go on the inter web was last summer when I got this phone. First thing I looked up was bonsai. But enough about me. 
  Dalton. I don't know that much about Japanese Black Pine so I can't tell you what kind of temperature lows it can handle but if it makes it the tree will need dormancy in the future. My
pines are all zoned for my area. Bristlecone , Mugo and Eastern White Pine. I will be purchasing a JBP thunderhead this spring. Found a huge one down in Saginaw for $90.00. I hope it makes it through the zone 5 winter down there. LOL.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  M. Frary on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:10 pm

Twisted Trees. I just saw your rely to this thread and am a little confused. If you're zone 5 and the JBP are zone 5 what's the problem? Are these trees that delicate? What kind of winter protection are you giving your trees.I should think they should make it just fine out of the wind. Really curious.

  Thank You.
 Mike Frary

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Twisted Trees on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:26 pm

M. Frary wrote:Twisted Trees. I just saw your rely to this thread and am a little confused. If you're zone 5 and the JBP are zone 5 what's the problem? Are these trees that delicate? What kind of winter protection are you giving your trees.I should think they should make it just fine out of the wind. Really curious.

  Thank You.
 Mike Frary
It is rare to find a site which puts JBP in a zone 5. They are usually zone 6 or higher. The first batch I tried about 10 years ago all died in the ground when it got to -20 that winter. All of mine are now in nursery pots and in a cold room under my patio which I can allow basement heat into when it gets below zero.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:26 pm

Twisted Trees wrote:Also, how compacted is that soil?  Does water soak in immediately or run off?
Both. A little runs down the side but most gets soaked in. I know it needs a repot soon.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:29 pm

Twisted Trees wrote:Are you familiar with how to do this?
More or less. I know you basically pull them in an upward direction and you make sure to leave certain amounts on different parts of the tree, but I don't know the specifics. Should I pluck the needles before I repot it? Which should come first? The soil it's in is alright, it won't die in it yet, but it's not ideal.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Twisted Trees on Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:02 pm

Dalton Duffett wrote:
Twisted Trees wrote:Are you familiar with how to do this?
More or less. I know you basically pull them in an upward direction and you make sure to leave certain amounts on different parts of the tree, but I don't know the specifics. Should I pluck the needles before I repot it? Which should come first? The soil it's in is alright, it won't die in it yet, but it's not ideal.
Here, http://www.adamsbonsai.com/pine_foliage.pdf is a very in depth article on growth control for pines by Julian Adams of Adams Bonsai in Lynchburg Virginia.  Julian is well respected for his analysis of pine training techniques.  As for the soil, judging from the photographs I'd say it needs re-potting into appropriate pine bonsai soil in the spring just after the buds begin to swell and before they open.  If you know someone that is proficient in bonsai to help with this it's recommended.  In the meantime poke some holes straight down into the soil, about 5-6, to help water get down into it.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Dalton Duffett on Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:30 pm

Twisted Trees wrote:As for the soil, judging from the photographs I'd say it needs re-potting into appropriate pine bonsai soil in the spring just after the buds begin to swell and before they open.  If you know someone that is proficient in bonsai to help with this it's recommended.
What do you mean by "pine soil"? What's different? I know it has to be slightly acidic, but other than that what's different from normal bonsai soil?

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Twisted Trees on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:37 pm

Dalton Duffett wrote:
Twisted Trees wrote:As for the soil, judging from the photographs I'd say it needs re-potting into appropriate pine bonsai soil in the spring just after the buds begin to swell and before they open.  If you know someone that is proficient in bonsai to help with this it's recommended.
What do you mean by "pine soil"? What's different? I know it has to be slightly acidic, but other than that what's different from normal bonsai soil?
Pines need a coarser larger sized particles to promote good drainage. Some people use up to a 60% akadama in their pine soil mixes. A new trend is to also add horticultural charcoal to many soil mixes.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Brian Van Fleet on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:25 am

From the photos, it looks like the discolored needles are the old needles...they're closer to the interior. New (last year's) needles are the furthest from the trunk, and seem to be ok.

Your pine needs to be outside, and should be brought in to an unheated garage when temps drop much below 25f. Mine have sat outside unprotected in temps down to the low teens; they're fine but I don't like it.

Get help when it's time to repot, but wait until the new buds start to elongate just a little...probably another 4-6 weeks.

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  FrankP999 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:00 am

If you can access youtube, watch Ryan Neil's lecture http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn1FiRw2JBo

It has the basics on black pine care

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

Post  Brian Van Fleet on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:21 am

Also...
http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/id807254925?utm_medium=email&utm_source=application-ebook&utm_campaign=distribution-ibook_available&utm_content=1215am-02_05_14-body

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Re: Is my Japanese Black Pine Diseased?

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