amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

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amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  Jake16 on Sun May 05, 2013 11:14 pm

I keep looking at pictures and written descriptions of a American elm and a American hornbeam but can not tell the difference. The only thing I noticed is that the mature bark is different. Any suggestions?

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  PeacefulAres on Mon May 06, 2013 12:42 am

If you look at the base of the leaf, where it meets the petiole, the leaf of an American Elm will generally be asymmetrical, while the Hornbeam will be symmetrical.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  Jake16 on Mon May 06, 2013 2:34 am

Perfect, thank you.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  JimLewis on Mon May 06, 2013 1:30 pm

But the bark is the distinctive difference.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  Jake16 on Mon May 06, 2013 4:13 pm

Yeah the only problem is that im looking for younger trees so the bark (if the old bark is the only way) is not so distinctive.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  PeacefulAres on Mon May 06, 2013 5:42 pm

Jake16 wrote:Yeah the only problem is that im looking for younger trees so the bark (if the old bark is the only way) is not so distinctive.

I don't have any hornbeams in my area, so it's a bit hard to give a first hand account of what the bark looks likes. However, in most images I have seen, they seem to be smooth barked, and sinuous looking. The Florida elms starts to show fairly rough bark on trees that are 8-10 feet tall.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  Russell Coker on Mon May 06, 2013 6:01 pm



American elm (left), the leaf feels like fine sandpaper. American Hornbeam (middle), notice the reddishness and the leaf is smooth and thin.

Taiwan cherry (right), just to screw with your mind.


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LEAVES

Post  abcd on Mon May 06, 2013 6:37 pm

[img][/img]

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  Oliver Muscio on Mon May 06, 2013 6:44 pm

abcd,
I think you have the drawings' labels reversed: it's the elm leaf that has an asymmetrical base.
Oliver

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  JimLewis on Mon May 06, 2013 7:46 pm

And then there is the American Hackberry whose (variable) leaves can look like either/any of those. Leaves often are the poorest diagnostic. Bark, twigs and buds are VERY distinctive.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  PeacefulAres on Mon May 06, 2013 8:48 pm

JimLewis wrote:And then there is the American Hackberry whose (variable) leaves can look like either/any of those. Leaves often are the poorest diagnostic. Bark, twigs and buds are VERY distinctive.

Hackberry leaves tend to be thinner, smoother, lighter in color and a bit more spade/heart shaped than elms. This isn't meant to be a contradiction, just a distinction. But Jim is right, it seems that elms, and other related species can have extremely variable leaf shapes, so it's probably better to look at other features.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  Jake16 on Tue May 07, 2013 3:28 am

Thank you Russell that helps a lot and thank you every one else for the posts.

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

Post  abcd on Tue May 07, 2013 7:46 am

Sorry for the mistake :
[img][/img]

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Re: amer. elm or amer. hornbeam?

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