i have a question

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i have a question

Post  yorasta on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:30 pm

Hello to all , I noticed from several colectors of Yamadori that gather materials that have very few roots and i'm interested in what kind of substances, fertilizers used for faster rooting ? thx

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Re: i have a question

Post  cbobgo on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:52 am

bottom heat is generally accepted as helpful at stimulating new roots.

- bob

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Re: i have a question

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:49 am

Really depends too on the species collected.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: i have a question

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:45 pm

jun wrote:Really depends too on the species collected.

regards,
jun :)

And where you are. Jun, in the tropics has a much easier time collecting rootless trees than we do in the colder parts of the world.

That said, there's no proven chemical means of ensuring survival. Collect, plant immediately in the ground or a grow box, water, keep out of the wind, don't jostle the tree and fertilize, but sparingly.

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Re: i have a question

Post  yorasta on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:07 pm

i whant to collect din juniper but i dont whant to risk en to die , It would be a massive loss

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Re: i have a question

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:26 pm

JimLewis wrote:
jun wrote:Really depends too on the species collected.

regards,
jun Smile

And where you are. Jun, in the tropics has a much easier time collecting rootless trees than we do in the colder parts of the world.

That said, there's no proven chemical means of ensuring survival. Collect, plant immediately in the ground or a grow box, water, keep out of the wind, don't jostle the tree and fertilize, but sparingly.

Yup! Some trees are very tricky. there is no 100% guarantee on the success, there is no magic trick or guaranteed formula. Even here in the tropics. Casuarina is the most difficult to handle (I think), during and after the initial month that follows.

Even the variations on places to collect plays a very crucial role on survivability of the tree. That is why I don't recommend digging of trees if somebody doing it is not sure on what to do...otherwise the chance of wasting a tree in nature would be very big.

regards,
jun Smile



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Re: i have a question

Post  yorasta on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Mr. Graham Potter use dis http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2461 for all yamadori I read the description and business say it's a solution that if you use will not have negative results , that's from what I understand

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Re: i have a question

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:47 pm

It sounds like a product being sold. It will always sound good and foolproof.

experience in collection of yamadori is the best formula. then coaching from an experienced person comes next. both 1 and 2 is not for sale.


regards,
jun Smile

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Re: i have a question

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:08 pm

From the product website. I guess you use it on excited or hyperactive plants.

RHIZOTONIC is 100% natural, and contains multiple vitamins. RHIZOTONIC influences the root environment and is the ideal supplement for the crop environment created by the grower. RHIZOTONIC has a calming effect on plants, and is ideally suited for use when shipping or re-potting plants. RHIZOTONIC will also improve plants that are unhealthy or poorly developed.

It allegedly contains "over 60" microbiotic substances, but the only substances touted are the B vitamins.

Buyer beware.

I won't go into my magic elixir diatribe, but at $50-$60 a liter, I'll pass.

====================

I think I'd also pass on the juniper. I see little that appeals to ME there.

However, it looks quite collectible

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: i have a question

Post  marcus watts on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:24 pm

rhizotonic works well for me - it lets you do pretty drastic root reductions at repotting time to get trees into the right sized pots etc. i know how long trees can sulk for after major root work and i have seen very quick recovery on many of my repotted trees this past year. the stronger the roots the quicker you can develop the rest of the tree

i get mine from a local hydroponic shop but like all tonics, potions etc you have to keep an open mind and look closely at the advisors - see if they are working with similar material to the tree you want to work with and look at their results - sometimes using products like this can give visible results in 2 or 3 years that other growers cant get in 10 years. I know people who barely fertilize and are adamant the trees live ok without - but their living trees have remained poor and unfulfilled for decades

Canna products are excelent - i have about 5 of them for various trees - used as specific tonics alongside my fertilizer products, but it needs an open mind to accept new modern products and methods.

good luck - the juniper will collect ok - dont reduce foliage after collection as this will drive new root growth -

cheers Marcus

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Re: i have a question

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:49 pm

JimLewis wrote:From the product website. I guess you use it on excited or hyperactive plants.

RHIZOTONIC is 100% natural, and contains multiple vitamins. RHIZOTONIC influences the root environment and is the ideal supplement for the crop environment created by the grower. RHIZOTONIC has a calming effect on plants, and is ideally suited for use when shipping or re-potting plants. RHIZOTONIC will also improve plants that are unhealthy or poorly developed.

It allegedly contains "over 60" microbiotic substances, but the only substances touted are the B vitamins.

Buyer beware.

I won't go into my magic elixir diatribe, but at $50-$60 a liter, I'll pass.

====================

I think I'd also pass on the juniper. I see little that appeals to ME there.

However, it looks quite collectible

whatever is in it, here in belgium and holland the product is known in horticulture... and has proven itself...

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Re: i have a question

Post  marcus watts on Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:05 am

there have been many threads that basically were spawned specifically by superthrive and its effectiveness or lack of.......since then the same old replies pop up regardless of the product being discussed. A product that has 61 or more ingredients (one of which is a little bit of VitB) can not be compared and tarred with the superthrive brush and to do so shows a complete lack of understanding.

Cost is incredibly low too........I repotted 18 large trees last spring - properly reducing roots by 30% - 60% on all trees - and one 250ml bottle was all that was needed to complete a course of treatment on the whole lot - $18 ish? for 18 trees.............speaks for itself. I use cannazyme too - the enzyme treatment that breaks down dead roots and turns them into 'plant food' - that had comments by people worried it would disolve their living roots, another simple lack of understanding

the decision is simple in this case - the tree is free, the collector needs a little confidence for aftercare and recovery, buy 250ml, it is still a cheap juniper. dig it with a large rootball, keep the core of soil, tie it in a box with pumice or similar media and water with rhizotonic for 3 months - do not prune at all - leave for 3 growing seasons before any bonsai fiddling then repot properly, removing the original soil, it will be fine.

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Re: i have a question

Post  Andrew Legg on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:47 am

Marcus, I'd add one thing, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but as this is a juniper I'd also spray/mist the foliage regularly. As I understand it, the foliage of junipers can absorb a fair amount of water, and this helps to avoid drying out of the tree.

Cheers,

Andrew

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Re: i have a question

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:27 am

Want top collect safely ?

Simple, just prepare the soil around the victim, and do over a period of years.
If it is worth it, take the time to do it.

Impatience is the killer.
No need for chemical inducements after the collection.
Have fun.
Khaimraj

* Unless your hidden motivation is to sell and do the I got something for nothing, but I can sell it.
Very prevelant on our coasts of fish and mountains of wild meat --- tsk tsk affraid

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Re: i have a question

Post  yorasta on Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:37 pm

Thanks to all for the replies... Maybe I was expecting more from all of you , some people with a very great experience

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Re: i have a question

Post  Guest on Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:21 pm

yorasta wrote:Thanks to all for the replies... Maybe I was expecting more from all of you , some people with a very great experience

I think i have an experience that qualifies as 'a great experience', but it my sound quite simple, yet effective in my case.

I can give 2 examples, a hawthorn i dug out myself, and after many years of using a selfmade soil (the usual mixing of organics, akadama, sand/grit, etc) that only gave poor rooting, poor growth, i repotted it in 100% zeolite substrate and within the same season it revived, the result was immediate, and it had its first year with very strong growth (3 to 4 pruning of new shoots). The following year i could see the amazing result when repotting, a pot full of a mass of feeder roots, whereas in the old soil it only produced limited amount of roots and mostly longer roots.

Second example yielded same results, with a 4yo birch i had fieldgrown since seedling and that i potted up with hardly ANY roots nor feeder roots. Same results, good growth but more even better rooting. I can prove this with pictures, i have pictures that show the original potting up, and the rootmass after 1 year.

I have mentioned the type of substrate i use in several posts/replies but here you have it again: its clinoptilolite (a natural vulcanic mineral), i get it in bags of 25kg (belgium), medium sized granulate 2 to 4mm, does not break down, and has charactaristics that are superior to akadama. It also contains spores/micronutrients, you can google it and find info quite easily.

I fertilized as well, but not with anything out of the ordinary, so the results I got are 100% due to this substrate.

I cannot guarantee it works in all cases, for all trees, but the results i got are quite astonishing on the rootgrowing part (big amount of new roots, and finer roots too)

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