Here endeth the first lesson.

"UKIP, National Front, Tea Party, etc. and friends",

I guess we all have groups like this, but they seem to be breeding like rabbits (no offense to rabbits) these days.

In our country, Tea Partiers stand on soapboxes spouting Jingoistic blather, then turn around in local, state, and national governments and do their damnedest to dismantle everything that has helped create the very greatness they brag about -- cutting funds, refusing to equalize taxes and making it impossible for the country to pay for the services they always demand when THEIR times get tough (but not when life is tough for everyone else).

In my opinion, that is danged close to treason.

will baddeley wrote:

Dale Cochoy wrote:Alain,
You never heard that Americans had to bear arms in France?
and Great Britain, Germany, Italy, etc, etc, etc. ....

D.

I fail to see the link between WWII and private gun ownership

You don't??
Will, The LINK is that not all people can always protect themselves. As I mentioned in my first post, I was sorry for the shop owners, etc. in England that could not protect themselves except with a loaf of bread ( or a baseball bat) . 50% of people can't protect themselves or their family from ONE GUY, thats why someone usually loses in a fight, but only on tv movies does one guy protect himself from 2, 4 or 7. Sometimes we need help and sometimes you need to help someone. ( I think you guys are getting help from a US lawman right now?).
I'm not going to take up the pro-gun, anti-gun debate here on the bonsai list. My POINT was that I was sorry that the London riot victims couldn't easily protect themselves just as nations often can't, especially when unarmed. People around the world seem to easily forget just how much we have helped to protect them when they couldn't defend themselves, very often at a great, great cost to us. I had the feeling Alain had forgotten this.
As I said, I'm sorry to hear of his instances of grief,but I still feel bad for riot victims who are powerless to defend themselves, their family, their home and businesses because, as a law abiding citizen, they can't personally own a weapon while criminals can.
In my opinion, you have the RIGHT and THE DUTY to defend yourself , your family and your country from harm, until you simply can't fight anymore or until death if need be. In many cases it takes a SERIOUS means to do so and if your country sees fit to disarm you, then you are at the mercy of any group of thugs or country.
I'm confused that you don't see a connection between defending yourself from one mob or another?

I think I've said all I need to on this and from experience I know how nasty it can get on 'talk groups' subjects like this. So, I'm out.
However,I still do feel for the Brits and their problems now.

D.

Can we get back to bonsai please? This is only going one way.

Agreed.