My suiseki! from Russia

Hello.

Михаил wrote:Hello.

http://art-vostok33.ru/index.html

I suppose it is an interesting web site, however, most of us don't read Russian.

I have PMed the poster to ask us if he/she would mind giving us some information and pictures in English on this thread.

Looks interesting too.

Let me give some explanations:
Михаил - Mikhail is suiseki collector & enthusiast.
The link tells about Suiseki & Bonsai exhibition in Suzdal June, 17-21.
There will be represented some suiseki works of Mikhail and bonsai trees by Andrei Darusenkov, you can see some of his works here.
Suseki by Mikhail you can see here and one of the my favourite "They killed Kenny!" here.
Sorry, all in Russian, but images do not need text sometimes .

Thank you, Jur. I had suggested to Mikhail in my PM that he could get some of the other Russian speakers to help him translate. Seems like you've got it in hand.

Nice images. It would be good if some could be posted directly on here as some of the members are wary of links.

fiona wrote:Nice images. It would be good if some could be posted directly on here as some of the members are wary of links.

Thank you, Fiona! I ask Mikhail for the permission for direct posting images here.

Jur wrote:...and one of the my favourite "They killed Kenny!" here.

Haha....love it!

Here some of his works, hope not too many ).

Some of these are indeed interesting but would I be right in assuming that they are more art objects than suiseki in the true sense because they have been altered and re-formed by the hand of man rather than nature? "Suiseki" rather than Suiseki.

Or is that too simple an assumption.

All living things (untouched by human hand). Michael

I'm shocked of the greatness of the daiza. Thats's egzample of artistic soul of the owner and beautifull of the nature.

Very refreshing and amusing. The Daisa carving is superb. Great craftsmanship and imagination.

fiona wrote:...would I be right in assuming that they are more art objects than suiseki in the true sense because they have been altered and re-formed by the hand of man rather than nature? "Suiseki" rather than Suiseki.

My opinion - I can agree to some extent with you - some of these works are not "suiseki in the "true sense" (traditional, classic suiseki), but if we sometimes tell about western bonsai, if it is possible to say - rethinking, isn't the same? Taking into account the fact that all the stones were not re-formed by the hand of man.

Dear Jur

Awesome....thanks for sharing.

Kind regards Yvonne

Hi everyone,

Let me express in a straight way.
Are these items art objects? Most likely, yes
Are they suiseki or, in a broader sense, viewing stones? Definitively, no.
Viewing stones are natural and relatively small stones that suggest a scene from nature, mainly by their shape, though texture and colour play often an important role as well.
They are the own characteristics of the stone which create the suggestion, not the stand (daiza) or other suplements/complements. If it is the stand that creates the suggestion, this is the main and basic element of the composition and the stone is only an add-on: it may be said that it is closer to sculpture with mixed materials.
Of course, this is my view and maybe it will not be shared by other people, and it is not related to the obvious merit and quality of the compositions by Mijail.
Regards,
qseki

I like some of your stones very much, the hambuger made me laugh, the cranes I think are superb not so much the stones used but your fantasy to see beyond the stone!

Peter

Mikhail,

Keep on doin' what you are doin'!

Yes, a couple of your diaza interpretations may be 'in your face' and modern but so what.

But if you take a look at Willi Benz' books "Suiseki, the Asian art of beautiful stones" and "Asiatische Kunst mit schoenen Steinen" which is an album of his stones you will see examples of diaza's similar to yours.

Salute all You ,
Here ( stones of Mr. Mikhail ) , I noticed there was a very sensitive combination between HUMAN and NATURAL STONE ... that every Person , will have a look , a slightly feel different about them .
But i really do not understand is WHY ... The Japanese people are very Good enjoy stone in the style SUISEKI ...???
Best Regards ,
Hưng - Trần .

I am sorry, I think this is a little bit my fault for the hubbub : Mikhail ask me to post pictures on my choice and these works seems to me interesting to share.
Here his classic suiseki and they seems to me interesting, but a little bit dull in comparison with the first.

And I love these stones too: they are far from dull.

Having kind of kick-started the debate about suiseki vs art objects, I haven't contributed up 'til now as I am only too aware that my interest in stones is in its infancy and my knowledge of the subject hasn't got past reading a few chapters of some books.

My comment was to do with the issue that what I have read echoes qseki's point about suisekis' beauty being in their evocation rather than direct representation of scenes from nature or whatever. I've been looking at the stones on other threads and have tried to join in the "what do I see in this stone?" discussions. And what fun it is too - like looking at shapes in an open fire. I'm not so rigid of mind that I would discount the more zany "sightings" when looking at a stone. If I saw a hamburger then that to me is as valid a sight as seeing something more "highbrow".

I asked my original question because I felt that once the stone is turned into something concrete (by adding a specifically carved daiza for example,) it no longer has that aspect of evocation. The nesting bird therefore has become a nesting bird rather than evoking one. Likewise the cranes, and likewise Kenny. This means the viewer can take only one interpretation (that of the artist) from it, which to me removes part of the fun if not the whole point of suiseki.

And like other posters, I do not intend this to be a criticism of Mikhail's offerings. I love their quirkiness and I also love the sense of fun they have.

I see a peaceful coexistence side by side.

And Jur, I don't think there's any hubbub and there's certainly no need to apologise. It takes something like this to make us re-evaluate our own views and possibly even realign them. That's the whole point of the shock of the new - to stir up complacency and to get people at least to think about things even if they hold on to their previous views as a result. This to me is a good thread and I look forward to its progression. I'd certainly be interested to hear how the stones are received by the viewing public at the exhibition. Good luck to Mikhail at that.

Fiona, thank you!
The thing is I can not argue in any of your thoughts, I fully agree with everything you said.
And really this is very correct notice about suiseki and evocation.

I'd certainly be interested to hear how the stones are received by the viewing public at the exhibition.

For me also - the art of suiseki is almost unknown in Russia, even the term.

Fiona, when I first saw photos of Michael' works my reaction was sort of similar to some of the views expressed here - this is not suiseki. Then I had a privilige of experiencing his works "in person" and I enjoyed them so much that I immediately forgot about all formal considerations. Actually this is very much alike a never ending dispute about what is a real bonsai or what is a real music and so on. Volumes have been written and re-written on that. I guess formal criteria is needed indeed when people study new subjects, however it works differently with those who have internalised the main principles of art and beauty. And if all of us continue to do the same Japanese style bonsai or suiseki wouldn't it make our efforts superfluous? In fact in China and other Asian contries suiseki or whatever they call it, is interpreted differently. On a more specific point. I have perhaps even less knowledge of suiseki however I've seen guite a few Japanese ones and many of them were not really evocative in my view but rather directly realistic in representing mountains for example. I guess we enter here another never ending dispute between fans of a more realistic art and that of abstract art, (Ironically, very often modern Japanese bonsai can be very abstract!) And after all we live in the 21 century, can we allow ourselves to be a bit wittier and even directly humorous in our art sometimes than classical approach permits? Best, Andrei

Hello IBC Forum ,
Salute all you ,
I agree with the view of Mr . Andrei Darusenkov ... Because all of Us are playing rock freely with each person ...
Okey , this is good progress ... I really hope so .
Best Regards ,
Hưng - Trần .