Three element Display

Hi Mike, with due respect I find your tree styling a tad strange those you
have posted on the IBC all have the recurring flat as a pancake apex!!!!!!!!!do you
draw your inspiration from the Acacia tree !

regards Alex e

Well, Alex, it's his tree; I suspect he can do what he wishes -- especially since he's probably been at this a LOT longer than you have. There are, I suspect, more polite ways of pointing out your dislike of someone's trees -- like saying nothing at all (almost always best), or like suggesting something constructive.

That said, I like the display, but think I might consider turning the tree around. It seems to be leaning away from the viewer? Or is that an optical illusion?

Im sure Alex didnt meen anything offending with his reply. Just an inquiry that he's taken a notice of.
How long one has been into something doesnt matter in my oppinion. Age/time alone doesnt meen anything. I am still young, but Ive been into music and bassplaying for as long as I can remember. But i wouldnt in any way hold that against someone who has been playing for a third of the time. I dont want to come off as cocky or anything here, Im not saying im good, and I dont play much these days either, just have a love for music.
The reason im using music as an example, is that in my 22 years, its the hobby and love I have had the longest.
Ive been thinking of Page's styling when I see his trees too, but I dont have a problem with it, ive enjoyed every tree Ive seen. I guess its just the way he appriciate the trees the most. I do agree that the way Alex responded might have been harsh. I also do agree with you Jim, that if you really dont like what you see, dont say anything.
I would also like to see what it looks like the other way around, since the lower branches are on the backside.
When I see an apex without branches going upwards, my personal preference is when they have a jin at the top, so it seems more like it has died off.
I like the whole setting. And I cant say I know much of how one should display a bonsai, but a small sidenote is that I feel it would be even better if the feet of the accent table, were a bit darker brown. I feel like it works a bit against the wood under the tree.

Sincerely
Storm

Storm wrote:Im sure Alex didnt meen anything offending with his reply. Just an inquiry that he's taken a notice of.
How long one has been into something doesnt matter in my oppinion. Age/time alone doesnt meen anything. I am still young, but Ive been into music and bassplaying for as long as I can remember. But i wouldnt in any way hold that against someone who has been playing for a third of the time. I dont want to come off as cocky or anything here, Im not saying im good, and I dont play much these days either, just have a love for music.
The reason im using music as an example, is that in my 22 years, its the hobby and love I have had the longest.
Ive been thinking of Page's styling when I see his trees too, but I dont have a problem with it, ive enjoyed every tree Ive seen. I guess its just the way he appriciate the trees the most. I do agree that the way Alex responded might have been harsh. I also do agree with you Jim, that if you really dont like what you see, dont say anything.
I would also like to see what it looks like the other way around, since the lower branches are on the backside.
When I see an apex without branches going upwards, my personal preference is when they have a jin at the top, so it seems more like it has died off.
I like the whole setting. And I cant say I know much of how one should display a bonsai, but a small sidenote is that I feel it would be even better if the feet of the accent table, were a bit darker brown. I feel like it works a bit against the wood under the tree.

Sincerely
Storm

...Yes I think too, Alex meant nothing offensive.
...And yes too, more than often I heard that annoying thing, that " somebody spent more time in this hobby than you"...and the conclusion is that the guy who spent more time on something is always better and knows more...I definitely don't think so.
...Just recently got this issue too in an older ( "in terms of bonsai work" ) guy,... Please, lets not use the time table to judge somebody's ability.

with regards to MIke's dislay...If he's happy with it then in my humble opinion it's ok. and not because he is doing bonsai for a long time...It''s just because he is happy with it.

regards,
jun

Hi Jun & Storm thanks for your support and you are absolutely correct
there was nothing malicious in my comments! but what you have to understand is that
regardless of what I say or how I say it someone is always there to slate me its the nature of the beast.
I am genuine in my interest as to why Mike Page styles his trees with flat apexes, and BTW
at NO!! point did I say I disliked or liked it , The argument "well if they like it" or "they have been
doing it a lot longer than you" DOESN'T!cut it or make something right I have always felt that Bonsai
is not only a "Hobby or"Art" BUT!!!!!also a discipline and with all disciplines there are certain criteria
I started Bonsai in 1990 with the understanding I was meant to be replicating a tree in miniature in a pot!
hence my reference to Mike Page's trees looking Acacia like NO! more NO! less other than that .
I was also under the impression a " FORUM " is there to impart, receive & learn from its chosen subject .
Just in case I am red carded from the IBC look forward to seeing some of you guys at the Best Of British
.

Happy Bonsai Alex e

Check out the link to view the "Land of the Flattop Tree", aka the California coasr. The images are old Monterey Cypresses that grow along the coast. They have been inspiring to me. You don't often see the "flattop" style in bonsai. I think it may be because of the idea that every tree must have an apex. Young trees always have an apex. Ancient trees often don't have an apex, except for the one that is in the imagination of the viewer.

Bonsai imitates nature. Is is time to add another style, "Flattop", to the list?

Mike

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=860&bih=571&q=monterey+cypress&gbv=2&aq=7&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=Monterey

Hello Mike. I see what you are trying to say and had a look at the link. All those flat topped Monterey's have a flat canopy above the trunk. Your tree should have the top branch wired up and spread out to emulate this?

Mike, that was a very civil and pertinent answer to a question that I believe from the poster's subsequent response was genuinely meant. And that is where we will draw the line under the issue of the poster's intention.

Regarding the display, I personally dont think it hangs together. To my mind the monkey (lemur?) is too large for the overall image (it is too large for what I see as an aged tree, and it dwarfs the mountain) and I find the way it is apparently "floating" a little bit off-putting. I do like the cheeky way it seems to be wanting to pick something off the tree and what would really appeal to my (possibly bizarre) humour would be had you used a second tree in the display with the monkey looking like it was swinging from one to the other. I'm also dying to place an Araucaria in there somewhere, but as I say - maybe just my sense of humour.

Anyway, thanks for posting - it is always good to get discussion going. I certainly do agree with the respondent's assertation that the forum is here to learn from, and as long as we do so civilly we can maybe all pick up some new insights along the way.


But, if I might ask a light-hearted question in a serious way (in that I do actually want to know the answer) - do you get monkeys in California?

Fiona, I don't think that there are any monkeys native to California. However, I have known a few "baboons".

Good thing we got this all cleared up, and good responses from the lot of you, and lets not head off topic on this one again.
I apologize to you too Mike by heading the topic away from the display for a bit. It was good you gave a link to those trees. But I feel they dont suit larches THAT good, as on other species.

LOVING it coz it turns out we are still learning from each others

Cheers to the forum & its member,
Alex/Ogie

I like the idea of the display. If you were going with a geographical location such as Madagascar, the tree looks like some of the pictures in the link below.
http://gei.aerobaticsweb.org/images/MADAGASCAR/mdg_acacia_1749x1179.jpg

Know you are confined to space in the current display, but if you had a Hondoko using the Suiseki you could remove the stand and let it sit on a tana (shelf) raised above the tree and far away (right or left) from the other two pieces.
http://chris.vandenberghe.org/photos/popular?g2_albumId=7&g2_itemId=4408

The viewer could have the image of the primate in the tree, with the Tsingy de Bemaraha National Park in the far off distance...

To my eye this is an excellent display. It tells me a story about the mountains. I think if a bonsai artist has reached a certain level, he looks for new challenges to express his creativity.

Mike Page said: Is is time to add another style, "Flattop", to the list?

Well Mike its already done.... many years back actually and by your own countryman the late Vaughn Bantling when he created the famous "Flat Top Bald Cypress". You however may claim the patent for "Flat Top Montery Cypress" style

Ravi

Ravi Kiran wrote:

Mike Page said: Is is time to add another style, "Flattop", to the list?

Well Mike its already done.... many years back actually and by your own countryman the late Vaughn Bantling when he created the famous "Flat Top Bald Cypress". You however may claim the patent for "Flat Top Montery Cypress" style

Ravi

You are right Ravi. Vaughn was the master of the Bald Cypress. He slogged through many a swamp to find some great old trees for bonsai.

No slight to Mike. He knows I respect his work. But I think maybe Mike would agree that the flat top Monterey cypress credit goes to Kats Kinoshita. On the other hand I would like to credit Mike as the creator of the "California bunjin" style.
Paul

Let's not forget flat tops in Africa...

The Sourh African bonsai community fancies the flat top as thier favorite style, I do believe...

Pat